Section 2004 Examination and possible objection to discharge

[AbbeyA]

[QUOTE=MSbklawyer;419191]Well, it's certainly an ordeal, I can understand that. But even though you've truly done nothing wrong, you have to understand that the bank does not have to take your statement that "we've done nothing wrong" at face value. They're entitled to look into it, turn over leaves and look under rocks. They have a legal duty to their shareholders to minimize any losses and to make absolutely sure that they're not being played. That's never a pleasant experience, to be under a microscope like that, but that is the adversarial system.

Sure feels like they have looked under rocks and have also performed a colonoscopy!

I understand how they have to be sure of everything and all, it's just the way this game has been played that has been so shady and difficult to digest. From the last minute filing of extensions, to the last minute 2004 exam, to the requests for more documents even though they were not on the motion to compel, to the different "theories" they have had about reasons to object ... all of it. That and the fact that they did not go after dh's business partner, his bk went through w/o a hitch. And they have another home that was pledged as collateral (a 3rd partner) and haven't done anything with it to date. That home has a significant amount of equity in it -- not that we want that family to lose their home, but we lost our stock account and are losing our home in foreclosure ... Just ready for this to end.

[MSbklawyer]

Sure feels like they have looked under rocks and have also performed a colonoscopy!

I know, it does feel that way. I had to go through an EUO (Examination Under Oath) which serves the same purpose as a 2004 exam, but it pertains to insurance claims instead of bankruptcy. Katrina dropped six HUGE pine trees on my house and a few days later, what little remained standing caught fire. There was no electricity going in, so the insurance company did a fraud investigation. You have never met a snake-rat-bastard-sunofa&itch until you've met an insurance fraud investigator. I was absolutely worthless for the nearly 6 months that was going on.

I just thought I hated insurance companies up until that point.

[AbbeyA]

I know, it does feel that way. I had to go through an EUO (Examination Under Oath) which serves the same purpose as a 2004 exam, but it pertains to insurance claims instead of bankruptcy. Katrina dropped six HUGE pine trees on my house and a few days later, what little remained standing caught fire. There was no electricity going in, so the insurance company did a fraud investigation. You have never met a snake-rat-bastard-sunofa&itch until you've met an insurance fraud investigator. I was absolutely worthless for the nearly 6 months that was going on.

I just thought I hated insurance companies up until that point.

I'm sorry about your home and belongings, I'm assuming everything turned out OK in the end? BTW, I love your disclaimer

[AbbeyA]

So I talked with our attorney yesterday about things ... he feels that the creditor will file some kind of objection - though he is not sure what angle they will be taking. He thinks that since the creditor has taken it this far, they will go with filing an objection.

Here's where I'm torn ... everyone here keeps saying they can't really file an objection without merit unless they want to risk sanctions and getting thrown out of court. They would need real, solid evidence of something that they are trying to claim, which there is nothing. That being said, why does our attorney think they will file something and risk sanctions - why wouldn't he think they will finally call it a day on this mess? He said he has absolutely no idea what they will try to file and is hoping they won't, but we'll deal with it if/when it happens.

Dh paid himself at most $90k per year from the business. Once in 4 years he took a $10k "bonus," that each member got when there was a surplus of money in the account. We were paid very sporadically, some months nothing, other months he paid himself more to make up for missed payments. He made several deposits of money into the business from our personal account to make sure payroll was covered when it was getting bad. He put in additional money into the collateral stock account toward the end when the market was down b/c the collateral on the loan was below the debt amount - as requested by the banker so he wouldn't collapse on the loan. He collapsed on the loan anyway one month later. The bank took the collateral stock account dh pledged to pay down the loan. The bank paid a business vendor out of the business account - a preferential payment not approved by dh, after they forced dh to sign over the accounts receivables to go directly to them. Another owner filed bk and it went through without a hitch, that person was discharged in the beginning of January, after the normal time frame after 341 meeting.

Now here we are, 8 1/2 months and three time extensions later and we wait until June 30th for the next deadline. WTF??? Wouldn't you think that the bank risks exposure of their shady practice by going further? Why would they even do that? There is more stuff that really puts them into a bad light - such as pulling back a health insurance payment dh made from the business account for the last month and they wouldn't refund the employees their payroll witholdings for the insurance. Any thoughts/comments?

[catleg]

Sadly, since this is apparently not one of the 19 Too Big To Fail banks with the implicit government guarantee, and since most bankers are too afraid to loan out any money these days, it appears that they spend their time combing through their old bad loan portfolios looking for money. This is tantamount to being an unemployed person and searching your sofa and under the car seats for loose change. "Hey I found 24 cents this week, compared to 15 cents last week, the trend is higher". Hang in there, and check every Friday to see if the bank has been taken over by the FDIC.

[AbbeyA]

So the 30th is quickly approaching -- still nothing on pacer or from our attorney. Starting to get very preoccupied by all of this again, I hate this feeling. From what I have read here, most debtors' attorneys are contacted by the creditors' attorneys when an objection will be filed - did I interpret this correctly? If so, I hope that means we will get through Wednesday without any filings ...

[AbbeyA]

Nothing yet on PACER -- please let 5:00 come and pass without anything!!!

[AbbeyA]

It is now 6:17pm -- nothing on PACER, no word from our attorney. Do I dare start to celebrate? OMG........

[MSbklawyer]

It is now 6:17pm -- nothing on PACER, no word from our attorney. Do I dare start to celebrate? OMG........

Wait until 1 minute after midnight. With electronic filing, the clerk's office needn't be physically open to accomplish a filing.

[AbbeyA]

Well ............ nothing shows up on pacer, cautiously holding my breath! Still no word from our attorney, kind of annoyed he hasn't sent an email or called to let us know we are in the clear (I emailed him yesterday asking him to let us know either way). Since he has not called, I am assuming that there was nothing filed. Getting excited!!!

[AbbeyA]

Just checked again -- Debtors Discharged !!!!!!!!!

We filed October 1st 2009, discharged July 1st 2010


Thank you everyone for your support and time, both my dh and I truly appreciate all we have learned and gained from this wonderful site! What a long haul this has been, it's time to look forward to our future and forget about the difficult challenges we have faced the last year and a half. Thank you all again for your kind words.

[justbroke]

AbbeyA, CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!

[ColoradoBell]

Well HOORAH!

Im not a 7 but a 13. My attorney just advised me that my ex husband wants a 2004.
Because I'll be filing for a modification of maintenance next month, I imagine he will use the 2004 to see what he can learn about my finances and expenses. Of course, for mod of maintenance I have to turn over everything to them anyway, so why are they bothering? I don't have anything to hide but it ticks me off re adding attorney fees (even though my attorney fees are pretty high up front and through the plan both...so I think 'included').

I like my attorney but she is not a litigating attorney. She's agreed to the 2004 without them filing a motion...just as a courtesy.

[hankmartin]

In Denial - abuse of process?

Help - I'm new and may posted this to the wrong thread - your giudance would be appreciated...

I took a pre-filing class for chapter 7 ten months ago but DID NOT file within the 180 days. (I was in denial about my situation - I thought I would win the lotto or get a better job:- (Then and up to now I have not hired an attorney. Two questions:

1) Does the US Bankruptcy court have a record that I attended this class?
2) If I had a free session with a bankruptcy attorney but did not engage them in the past ten months - does the court know that?

thks
Hank

[jjim120]

AbbeyA, just joined this forum and read your ordeal. Glad you are finally able to get on with your life. I am going to try to post a bit of my own ordeal that is going on now, and when all the crap we are going through is over, I am going to write a book about the corruption in our banking and legal system that destroys so many small businesses and jobs that are innocent of any wrongdoing.