ad pro case, what are my chances

[jturk]

they are claiming fraud because i charged up the card & didnt make a payment after that. (although i had made payments on the card prior, just not on the final debt that they are saying is non dischargeable).

they served me with the discovery which frankly looks like a huge pain in the balls to go through & gather what they are asking for. can any one on here offer any advice, thoughts, etc.... i appreciate it.


in other words, should i fight it (im representing myself & im not an attorney)
should i ignore it & let them win a judgement
should i settle,
etc...

[HHM]

Probably settle.

How much did you charge-up before BK?

[jturk]

my reply

Probably settle.

How much did you charge-up before BK?

the amount was like 9900.00

i would also like to add that i filed on may 26 2009 & they sent me the complaint letter on august 19 2009. do i have any room to file for a dismissal?

peace,
john

[AngelinaCat]

And how long prior to your filing did you run up these charges? Were they one or two large ticket items or several smaller ones?

[jturk]

reply

And how long prior to your filing did you run up these charges? Were they one or two large ticket items or several smaller ones?

i made 2 charges on september 23 & 24 2008. i filed on may 26 2009.

they were 2 large charges, the total amount was around 9900.00, paid to someoenes paypal account, as part of an investment into an adult website business.

[HHM]

Settle.

You had 2 significant charges and did not make 1 payment, that is pretty much a slam dunk case for the creditor.

Many will settle for about 50%, but since they have a fairly strong case and it has already gone to discovery, you may not get that amount.

If you do nothing, ultimately, they will get a judgment against you, which can never be discharged and can try to collect like any other judgment.

As for timing, as long as they filed before the objection deadline (which is 60 days after the 341 meeting), there are no grounds to object on timing.

[jturk]

question for hhm

Settle.

You had 2 significant charges and did not make 1 payment, that is pretty much a slam dunk case for the creditor.

Many will settle for about 50%, but since they have a fairly strong case and it has already gone to discovery, you may not get that amount.

If you do nothing, ultimately, they will have get a judgment against you, which can never be discharged and can try to collect like any other judgment.

As for timing, as long as they filed before the objection deadline (which is 60 days after the 341 meeting), there are no grounds to object on timing.

hhm,
i made the charges september 23 08 & filed may 26 09, does the time apart matter, because they are claiming fraud, is that outside the time frame that they are able to claim fraud? thanks

[HHM]

Nope, fraud is fraud regardless of when it happened.

You are probably thinking about the 90 day rule. If a charge is made within 90 days of filing BK, the court "presumes" the charge is fraudulent, meaning the burden of proof is on the debtor to prove the charges were NOT fraudulent.

Once you get outside the 90 days, the burden of proof shifts to the creditor. The creditor must prove the charges were fraudulent. In this case, you made 2 large charges and never made a payment, circumstantially, that is very strong evidence of fraud. Which is why I said above, this AP seems like a slam dunk for the creditors.

Now, had you been making payments during that time, the creditors case would be very weak, and they probably wouldn't have even brought the AP.

[AngelinaCat]

I concurr with HHM.

You filed within seven months so you were outside the standard look-back period of even six months or 180 days. Look back for potential fraud can be up to a year or more.

In that you made such large purchases and made no attempt to make at least one or two minimum payments, the creditor is looking at this as an attempt to defraud them.

Now you mention you paid this to someone's PayPal account through a credit card? Right? For two amounts of $4950 each for an Adult website???

$4950 times 2 = $9900 for a website of any kind, let alone an Adult Website is absolutley absurd. I create websites for people at about $150.00 to 200.00 for a simple single to two or three page web.

My friend, I think you have been *screwed*, to use a bad pun, in more ways than one.

[AngelinaCatHub]

i made 2 charges on september 23 & 24 2008. i filed on may 26 2009.

they were 2 large charges, the total amount was around 9900.00, paid to someoenes paypal account, as part of an investment into an adult website business.

Look, pal: I'm sorry to say, but we do not promote fraud here. Now, let me ask you in all honesty, what did you make on your "investment"? AND, if you were duped, why did you not stop payment on the credit card within the 60 day limit"? Next, if you thought this would make you money, where did THAT idea come from? Next, you just can't throw 10 grand at a PayPal account without knowing or talking with the receiver. If YOU were duped, YOU have legal recourse. GO file charges against this person.

If you do not know this person, there is no legal recourse for stupidity. I feel strongly that you are not playing a straight game with them, the card company, or US!

[OhioFiler]

Hopefully, you received a lifetime access pass to the website for your investment because you're definitely going to be paying off this investment for some time.

[catleg]

Dude, you're really in deep **** here, if you had an attorney you might have negotiated a settlement with them. But once they actually file an AP, they're not even motivated to settle. I would just let it go to default and deal with the consequences. They won't settle and you won't gain by spending on a lawyer.

Bottom line, they have enough "badges of fraud" to sustain their case. I understand you intentions are not fraudulent but the spend thru paypal, and lack of payments or payment history really cooks your goose.

[frogger]

they served me with the discovery which frankly looks like a huge pain in the balls to go through & gather what they are asking for. can any one on here offer any advice, thoughts, etc.... i appreciate it.

You made the charges, you got served, and now my advice is to fill out the paperwork and do it correctly.

My thoughts are that the payments of 9900.00 to "someones" adult web-site look and sound mighty suspicious. If you made these credit card payments, then it appears that you purchased what could be an asset, therefore the credit company either wants to be paid, or they want your asset back.

I'm not saying that what you did is fraudulent, but it is sure walking, talking and quacking like a duck.

Look on the bright side... that huge pain in the balls? At least it's not a case of the blue balls.

[justbroke]

I can only concur with my esteemed colleagues. Besides this sounds similar to someone else who was on here late last year with the same issue.

This is an easy case for the Creditor to win. I wouldn't even settle if I were the creditor.

[backtoschool]

Here is your thread from September where you asked the same question.

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=44495

This is a AP case that will be won by your creditor. If you can settle then I would do so, because you will lose the AP trial.