Adversary Proceeding Landlord Issue

[mtbc]

Without knowing all the facts in full, the advice is meaningless.

Then if you're going to ask for advice by starting threads here, provide all the relevant facts, or you're just wasting people's time.

The fact remains that you did not pay your rent on the day you agreed you would. The landlord may legitimately worry that that may not be the last time it would happen if they just let it pass. These things often turn more on the concrete legal aspects than the surrounding non-legal background. Good luck, though.

[DebtEnder]

If your going to ignore advice from someone because he filed for BK, why are you here?

Justbroke while he may be a BK'd landlord he has been there and done that. He's also studied the law far beyond the average joe. He's no lawyer but I can't recall a time where what he said was not accurate enough for what was asked of him.

[frogger]

Trustee has been discharged Frogger.

OK. So I still hope that you have plenty of money that the trustee "knew" about. To have filed for bk, you sure seem like you have enough money to lawyer up with.

And as far as the advice I have been given, every case is different. Without knowing all the facts in full, the advice is meaningless.

I agree. Once again, I sure would like to hear your landlords side of this story.

JustBroke isn't a lawyer he's a past landlord.

So am I. Just a broke past landlord. Perhaps I'm broke because of tenants that didn't honor their agreements.

If the 2 of you know so much, why are you both bankrupt and why does JustBroke know so much about getting taken when it comes to tenants?

Because JustBroke and I both have both been there and done that. Your fairy tail is much like what I've heard in court so many times. Nothing more than the same ole' same ole' same ole' thing over and over. A judge is going to have a big time with you and your intellect.

Seems all his wisdom on this comes from past experience.

Once again, your wisdom is shining.

Clearly, that business fell through. I'll take my chances...

They go and take your chances. All you are looking for is for someone to tell you that you are right, and perhaps stroke your ego of superior intellect compared to the stupid landlord.

You asked for advice, but yet you don't want to hear it. Go forth and spend all of that money that you have lawyering up. Your family be damned in this situation because your pride and ego are the most important things.

You're still in possession of the landlords property, the landlords keys, and the landlords money.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out of his property or this one. Goodbye.

[justbroke]

Well, in order to show my true intentions, I have decided to as agreed to from day one before lawyers were involved to turn the keys over end of the month. I will have a lawyer retained on this matter who has great knowledge in adversary proceedings. We will fight this case out of the house. Oh, he'll be paying my atty fees if he loses. Again, I feel confident.

You want to keep the place although you're in material breach. I agree, that they may be paying your attorney fees, but you have serious issues because you were in breach, not the landlord. Unfortunately, his failure to accept monies after the breach of contract is not a cause for which you can claim damages or relief.

The lease can't hold up unless the intent to defaud is proven. That will not happen here, so there's goes the lease.

Is this what you concluded or your Attorney? You are in material breach of the lease because you default due to non-payment. I don't know why you can't understand the difference. I'm trying to give you a preview of what your landlord's attorney is going to attack, and he's going to get you to say, under oath, that you missed a payment by several weeks.

And mind you again, he started this crap when no money whatsoever was due. His attitude brought on his worst nightmare and even with financial stress to my own family I will pay our atty to fight fire with fire.

Wait. You said that you missed a payment... so when did he start this? I think you're having issues with how this unfolded

All was fine until about 2 months in when we couldn't pay the 3rd month we had agreed to too. We offered to pay it but just late. Landlord refused to accept it. So, it goes on and on for about 2 weeks where he still refuses to take the 3rd month and refuses to give our sec deposit back, as we told him we wanted to move Feb 2010.

There are just too many issues here, and I think only a Court can help you and the landlord straighten this out. I won't pretend to know the contents of any e-mails you sent back and forth, but your recollection and posting of the events are inconsistent. Once you were in material breach of the contract, you were in material breach. It appears that you were in material breach, and that the landlord feels that you defrauded him. Compound that with the fact that you stated (earlier) that you wanted to "move Feb 2010"... with yet another breach. What is the landlord to think?

The landlord is doing the right thing by trying to resolve this in the Court. You could have vacated the premises, but instead, contrary to anything else, you continue to squat. I hope that you have been saving up all the rents and have them in escrow and/or having your attorney hold on to them (as this is a requirement for Bankruptcy related evictions).

If this goes to trial (after the pre-trial conference), your attorney and you need to sit down and figure out what you want to do. I clearly see issues that you don't see.

[justbroke]

Trustee has been discharged Frogger.

Irrelevant. Your case is open and the United States Trustee is who runs your case. The panel trustee is just to administer the assets of the Estate.

And as far as the advice I have been given, every case is different. Without knowing all the facts in full, the advice is meaningless.

Correct, and I've stated that several times. However, the only thing that sticks out from the information that you're willing to provide, is that you are in material breach of contract, refuse to vacate, and may have rejected the lease (intentionally or not).

JustBroke isn't a lawyer he's a past landlord. If the 2 of you know so much, why are you both bankrupt and why does JustBroke know so much about getting taken when it comes to tenants?

I know when to start the legal process. This is very important for a landlord to preserve their rights. Unfortunately, I was being nice to my tenant and allowed them to stay. Their inability to pay the full rent wasn't the real problem. It was the subsequent inability to find a suitable renter at a price that had a debt service of at least 0.9:1.

Think... there is much more to being a landlord than renters paying. Finding a suitable tenant can cause a landlord to lose 1-3 months of rents. That's not just in actual losses due to the place being empty, but advertising, redecorating, and management company fees.

Seems all his wisdom on this comes from past experience. Clearly, that business fell through. I'll take my chances...

I filed bankruptcy due to the economy, sure enough. Do you know what caused it... a tenant who didn't pay their rent and then the subsequent empty rental unit for months. Had I pounced when they were 5 days late and started eviction proceedings... perhaps I wouldn't be here providing advice to everyone. I've also been a tenant myself so I have lived on both side of the fence.

I don't know what you want from us. I tried to provide you a perspective of what I see as both a tenant and a landlord. I tried to tell you what it will be like in a court of equity, where the preponderance of evidence is what prevails, not anecdotal evidence. I tried to point you to the single issue you have with the breach and letting you know that you'll need to answer to that. If you're able to overcome those things, then good for you. However, and again, given the information provided... you have issues.

I'll leave you with this. Do you know why some landlords are more successful? They sue their tenants for breach as soon as it occurs. They are never "friends" with their tenants. They never take promises over cash.

[AngelinaCat]

This thread has run it's course and is now closed as it is apparant that the OP needs something beyond what this resouce is able to provide. Thank You.