adversary proceeding, Worried, please help

[2manybills]

ok all that being said, how much should i offer them? i owe 10k, how much will creditors usually settle for?

Do you have an attorney? If not, I would maybe start at 20 to 25 cents on the dollar. From what I've heard, most of these guys are already authorized to accept 50 cent on the dollar going in.

[backtoschool]

ok all that being said, how much should i offer them? i owe 10k, how much will creditors usually settle for?

Amex has been known to settle for 50% sometimes in regular debt settlements not associated with bankruptcy. (I have no idea what they would settle for with an AP in process) I would offer them $5,000. If you offer them too little, there is no incentive for them to settle since they will most likely win the AP and that means that that debt will NEVER be able to be discharged.

[jturk]

i was leaning towards fighting it because i was told by an attorney that i would be crazy not to fight it because if i didnt then every other creditor would then come back & do the same thing if they saw amex was getting money. however i have already received discharge papers (excluding this amex card) so is it even possible that by not fighting the other creditors would then jump on the wagon & file ap's also?

[backtoschool]

i was leaning towards fighting it because i was told by an attorney that i would be crazy not to fight it because if i didnt then every other creditor would then come back & do the same thing if they saw amex was getting money. however i have already received discharge papers (excluding this amex card) so is it even possible that by not fighting the other creditors would then jump on the wagon & file ap's also?

Your attorney will get a hefty fee for fighting it so I would take that into consideration.

Amex doesn't file AP's unless they have a strong case.

If the other creditors were going to file AP's they would have had to do so in their 60 day window to object to discharge. Amex filed the AP within that window. If you had any other creditors that objected to discharge within their 60 day window, then those creditors might file AP's. Did you have any other creditors object to your discharge within the 60 day window? Creditors cannot just come back and try to reopen your case. Once their 60 day window is over to object, then their debt gets discharged.

[2manybills]

i was leaning towards fighting it because i was told by an attorney that i would be crazy not to fight it because if i didnt then every other creditor would then come back & do the same thing if they saw amex was getting money. however i have already received discharge papers (excluding this amex card) so is it even possible that by not fighting the other creditors would then jump on the wagon & file ap's also?

They cannot file an AP after your last day to file objections. I would talk to your attorney and ask him to call and negotiate. It will certainly save you money in the long run to have your attorney doing the negotiating if you are able to do so. For a couple of hundred bucks, they should be able to negotiate a decent deal for you.

Remember, the creditor does not want to lose this AP, because then they have to pay your attorney's fees too! Like I said before, I would start at 20 to 25 cents on the dollar. They come in willing to settle for 50 cents.

[justbroke]

ok all that being said, how much should i offer them? i owe 10k, how much will creditors usually settle for?

You filed pro se so you're not really understanding the intricacies of how this is done. First, it would be a stipulation. Second, and in the prior thread, it was suggested that you offer them $5K and payment terms (1 to 2 years).

The reason to stipulate to this, is to save them money by forging forward with the prosecution of the complaint (Adversary Proceeding/AP). You save them $$$ in pursuing the complaint so they stipulate to a different amount than on the face of the complaint. Typical APs cost $5K and up to prosecute, so $10K - $5K = $5K.

i was leaning towards fighting it because i was told by an attorney that i would be crazy not to fight it because if i didnt then every other creditor would then come back & do the same thing if they saw amex was getting money. however i have already received discharge papers (excluding this amex card) so is it even possible that by not fighting the other creditors would then jump on the wagon & file ap's also?

That statement is hogwash. Any bankruptcy attorney worth the cost of his J.D. would tell you it's hogwash too.

The reason we earlier told you that it was better to stipulate and settle than to fight, because you'd have a tough fight given the circumstances you painted in the other thread. Since you had the card for 8 months before you charged $10K to it... then file bankruptcy 8 months later without even paying a penny? That's the definition and intent of 11 USC 523 right there.

[jribe]

i was leaning towards fighting it because i was told by an attorney that i would be crazy not to fight it because if i didnt then every other creditor would then come back & do the same thing if they saw amex was getting money. however i have already received discharge papers (excluding this amex card) so is it even possible that by not fighting the other creditors would then jump on the wagon & file ap's also?

ok- not to be mean. but what's the logic with hiring a BK attorney for 5k (and that's STARTING fee) for a 10k debt? You'll very likely lose (and still have to pay the attorney) and then owe the whole 10k.

What's the logical thing to do? Offer at least 5k- may have to offer more, because they could easily win this AP. It's a slam dunk as far as i'm concerned. You can't "overstate" income by 400k. Even 100k is not overstating. That's flat out lying. Plus- you didn't make ANY payments. It shows zero "good faith" on your part. That, coupled with the gross lying about income- you'll lose. Flat out -and simple.

Hedge your bets and pay the 5k.

[albacore44]

I'd still like to see that date

[music12]

400K?? what were you thinking!?!

i also think offering them something would do the trick, because AP's are costly for them as well.

[DeadManCrawling]

You may want to ask THEM for an offer to settle and see what they ask for.

I recently had a HOA case where we were clearly going to lose. This was on a second house. One missed HOA fee four years ago grew into a monster, even though we made other payments and actually thought we were cleared. Problem was, the home is in trust for our son and in another city.

Unbeknownst to us, the HOA had filed all sorts of suits, motions and every thing they could. By the time we actually heard there was something wrong, thye showed us three YEARS late on HOA fees, totalling almost 20k. That was the suit amount.

We contacted the attorney and requested some information. We also called another attorney to defend the matter. To defend would have cost us around 5k.

The HOA attorney sent us a letter offering a settlement for 3k. We negotiated that down to 2k.

The case is over, the lein was rleased last week, and everyone is happy.

Your case is different, I know, but you may find it is cheaper to settle than to fight. Especially since they know you ar ebroke, if you can scrape up a couple grand to send their way, they may go for it. On the other hand, I have heard horror stories about AMEX being unwilling to settle for less than 70-80%. Times are changing, though, and they may work with you.

[HHM]

Offer a settlement and enter into a stipulation, your chance of fighting and winning under the circumstances you describe is less than 1%.

[Faust]

What is the status of this?