341 and we get this so-called "diligent" trustee

[Slingerland]

Here's the ultimate: http://www.deq.state.ok.us/lpdnew/MethLabs/meth.htm

Print it out and hang it on the fridge.

[Resigned2BK]

Perhaps your pet could 'conveniently' throw up in some prominent place, like the bed, which my little avatar did today.... ??

I have a little barf-o-matic kitty and one even better than that who sometimes leaves little dark brown presents in the front room.

[ValleYum]

I have to wonder if the way to stop this crap is to indicate that your intention is to "retain". Remember, a Statement of Intention is exactly that - what you intend to do. What you intend and what you actually do (walk away at some point) are two different things. Maybe a Trustee will leave the underwater property alone if the debtor "intends" to keep it.

In both cases that have been reported on this board the intention was to surrender. Freeatlast was out of the home. In OP’s case, at the 341 his attny said the debtors were not going to try to keep the home.

Des.

Hi Des:

After I read this reply, I got curious as to what *exactly* was said by the Trustee in my case (here in Western Washington also - but in a different area of the state from Freeatlast and R2BK) and what we had indicated on our SOI.

This is a redacted copy of our actual SOI:


I found my post regarding my 341. It was easy enough to find as I remembered saying I had some wine with lunch after our 341. Apparently, I am the only person who talks about Reisling here on BKForum.

Here is what I said about the Short Sale that the Trustee mentioned at my 341:

What we were going to do regarding home?? We said we're midst of attempting to get a modification from Chase - trustee said that if this was not going well during the next 60 days that I could contact my attorney and that they would arrange a short sale contract for us so that our credit 'wouldn't be dinged twice'.

We were NOT asked if we were current on the house payments - we aren't - we missed 3 payments so Chase would offer a modification and as of today are 4 behind).

<snipped>

Trustee then said "I am going to declare this a No-Asset case. Remember to get in touch with your attorney so he can get with me (in the next 60 days) if you want us to short sale your home. You are free to go".

<snipped>

The short sale thing was interesting - first time I have heard that mentioned when reading on here about 341 meetings.

It was fully disclosed that we were 3 months behind (at the time of filing) on our mortgage on our petition in several places including the mention of arrears on on the SOI itself. We also had submitted a CMA that showed us almost 100k underwater.

Here is the thread if you want to read it in context: https://www.bkforum.com/showthread.p...-11-Western-WA

So, I think you are right when you said you these short sales and carve-outs may be hinged as to what the petitioner lists on their SOI.

Just wanted to throw that out there for everyone's benefit and let you know that you are right as usual, Des!! Thanks for all you do for everyone here in giving us your time and your valuable opinion.

[AngelinaCat]

I have a little barf-o-matic kitty and one even better than that who sometimes leaves little dark brown presents in the front room.

Barf-o-matic? Yeah, that describes my little girl. In spite of some of the not so pleasant aspects, you gotta love 'em. They are such good company.

[despritfreya]

Hi Des: So, I think you are right when you said you these short sales and carve-outs may be hinged as to what the petitioner lists on their SOI.

Very interesting. We should keep an eye on this issue. Maybe all debtors should say "stay and pay" if they are still in the home. Of course, I go back to my initial thoughts. I do not oppose a Trustee selling an asset that my client has walked away from. Let him make a few bucks if he can. What I do oppose is the unwarranted demand that a debtor assist in the transaction and the invasion of privacy that is happening in OP’s situation. I also disagree with an unreasonable delay in closing the case.

Des.

[justbroke]

Des, what you write is the problem. There's a conflict where the Trustee imposes upon the debtor or causes unreasonable delay.

But, I'll go back to what I said earlier. Trustees should not be in the business of finding "creative" ways to earn commissions. If they truly had the unsecured creditors in mind, I wouldn't care so much. But carving out $5-10K leaves a good chunk of it in the Trustee's coffers.

[Resigned2BK]

I have to say that these people handling the real estate listing are hilarious. We got a message yesterday from one of the agent's employees apologizing for not having the sign up yet and that they have a guy coming out Friday to do it, and oh, be a dear and put out 25 of the flyers. *snort* Then an even more hilarious message this morning that they just ran out of signs and had to special rush order a sign. HA! The sign guy did his installation on Monday. Oops.

[Resigned2BK]

In the ongoing journal of this adventure...

RE agent apparently decided to lower the price on our place $30K last Thurs. Whoa. We were expecting a price drop anytime but were both thinking it'd be like $10K or $15K. $30K is almost a 15% price drop. What the heck. Anyhoo, that explains a lot why after about a week and a half of zero calls, suddenly there was a flurry happening on Thursday and Friday. Happy Easter to us.

This is all pretty scary right now. It's at a price that we think is starting to be reasonable and given we keep seeing news stories each week talking about how there's low inventory and houses are getting bidded up right now... ugh. I had to make my own signs regarding things we told the agent that she explicitly said she'd make a sign for and have delivered or put up. She didn't tell us about the price drop either, found out on Zillow, and she told us she'd keep us in the loop on things like that. Kinds of makes us think she won't even say when an offer is made, really.

Our only comfort right now is that we've had only 2 people look at the place and in both cases they were in and out in 2-3 minutes total. We aren't menacing or anything like that, we just hang around and are very present and we are not bothering to be decluttered except to have walkways clear. Anything we do cleaning-wise we're just doing for our own sakes of wanting to feel better for ourselves in the everyday living. It'll turn off the superficial turnkey types, won't turn off people who realize the clutter leaves with us when the house is successfully purchased.

Oh, and the middle of last week we got a motion to lift stay from the mortgage holder. I doubt that's prompting such a steep drop in price, but who knows. I remember reading that such motions are very common and expected.

[despritfreya]

. . . the middle of last week we got a motion to lift stay from the mortgage holder. . . I remember reading that such motions are very common and expected.

and. . . while I could be totally wrong, this tells me that the Trustee ain't never going to get a short sale approved. Hope you eventually are offered cash for keys and laugh at the Trustee all the way to the bank.

Des.

[jst4f]

Thank you for keeping us updated. I believe this thread, when the story ends, will help a lot of others as they plan for their BK.

[Resigned2BK]

and. . . while I could be totally wrong, this tells me that the Trustee ain't never going to get a short sale approved. Hope you eventually are offered cash for keys and laugh at the Trustee all the way to the bank.

Des.

Cash for keys would be a completely amazing triumph, all things considered.

[Resigned2BK]

We came back from lunch and day out with the kids for a Spring Break day and we saw a RE agent with a couple of men (visably looking unrelated) standing in our driveway at 2PM. This guy just left a message yesterday evening to show our place at 11:45, we didn't call back to approve as we want to be there every time for these viewings and already had plans to have a family outing. The agent handling this short sale assured us that we will not have to show this house to anyone until we actually approve it. And this nimrod had the audacity to be all jovial and say they'd already been inside!

Needless to say we are extremely ticked off.

DH just called the agent's office handling our listing and the person on the other end was shocked and said she'll have the agent or her second in command call us back. DH also wants to report this guy to his own company and to the MLS. We're very concerned as there's a big increase in home invasions throughout the entire area. This just isn't right at all.

[keepsmiling]

How much trouble do you suppose you'd be in if you changed the locks?
That way you would HAVE to be home for showings.

[Slingerland]

I had something similar (agent who refused to call before showing) a number of years ago. In my "day job" I'm a software architect for a Fortune 100 company, and my specialty is Medicare fraud software. I get to work out of my house (my PC's hard drive is encrypted) but I get to see a LOT of raw Medicare claims data. I have a separate room for an office, nobody goes in but me.

About 6 years ago my wife and I were moving to a new house, and we had listed the old one. The agent's notes CLEARLY said that I worked from home and had to be notified before an agent visited with a buyer. That would give me time to clear my desk and lock down the computer. However one agent thought she was above all that... she would barge into the house repeatedly with no warning, and no concern about what we were doing at the time. To add insult to injury, she smoked in my house which my asthma can't tolerate (I once threatened to spray her with rubbing alcohol the next time she smoked in my house. Needless to say we didn't like each other.)

One beautiful spring day I had decided to eat lunch on my deck in the backyard. It had been a stressful morning, and I decided I needed to relax. When I came back inside, the agent... with her clients... were IN MY OFFICE poking through my papers. Yes, they were reading my work related papers.

Again... live Medicare data. So... I blocked the door and DEMANDED their IDs. The agent started to get puffy until I said the following:

"<agent's name> you've been told that I work from home, and yet I find you here in my office, committing a Federal crime by reviewing the Medicare data for almost 10,000 people. Now, according to HIPAA I have to notify my company that you've illegally accessed the data. They have to notify the federal agencies. With the number of claims, I have no doubt the FBI will be conducting the investigation. So I need your clients' names. NOW!"

At this point the clients are ashen faced and panicking. I couldn't resist... I turned to them and said: "Are you aware of the federal jail time involved for 10,000 HIPAA violations? Not to mention the FELONIES you committed by poking at my papers. No plea bargains here, this is FEDERAL time."

So they panicked and left in a hurry... and yes, I did contact my employer who contacted the agent's employer. She lost her license. I see her around sometimes and she still gives me the evil eye.

[Resigned2BK]

How much trouble do you suppose you'd be in if you changed the locks?
That way you would HAVE to be home for showings.

Probably some. We're thinking similar though. We're going to get one of those chain locks and just exit through the garage when we are all vacant from the house from now on.

The offending RE agent did end up calling the listing agent's office and apologized. DH has been sick since the last week of Feb constant, I'm sure the stress of all of this has been elemental in keeping the sickness going and not getting back to full health.