Ugh

[poormama]

Went to our 341 yesterday, ugh! There was the usual trustee, our lawyer and us. Then this guy sits down next to me - no idea who he is. He acts like he is the king poop of the day. We get sworn in and then he just starts grilling us about things on our petition. He was the state appointed something or other from the trustee's office. Because we were above the average amount allowed but we were in the negative otherwise, he came to grill us. Our lawyer was not much help, he had his numbers mixed up on something and kept grilling me about this thing I had no idea on and then when he showed it to me, he was talking about the wrong thing. In the end, he wants us to prove that we are taking the kids to daycare and that my husband has a 401K loan. Our lawyer has said, "He is going to be a pain in my ass!" Has anyone had to deal with the person like him? When he was done questioning us, 15 mins later, tells our lawyer he needs all this extra paperwork proving the daycare, 401K loan. The trustee looks to our lawyer and says, "Just send him everything you sent me". So, should we be worried?? Our lawyer says not to be worried but I just don't know. We can't afford a 13. Ugh!

[Pandora]

sorry you had to endure that It is normal however to have to prove and provide daycare and 401K loan costs, so I wouldnt sweat it too much. If you have faith in your lawyer, then listen to what he is telling you

[mommi2many]

Sorry to hear about your pain in the @#! but I wish you all the luck in the world dealing with him.

[Fallonedward]

I thought in a 7 you could not include the 401K loan? So why would he want proof?

Went to our 341 yesterday, ugh! There was the usual trustee, our lawyer and us. Then this guy sits down next to me - no idea who he is. He acts like he is the king poop of the day. We get sworn in and then he just starts grilling us about things on our petition. He was the state appointed something or other from the trustee's office. Because we were above the average amount allowed but we were in the negative otherwise, he came to grill us. Our lawyer was not much help, he had his numbers mixed up on something and kept grilling me about this thing I had no idea on and then when he showed it to me, he was talking about the wrong thing. In the end, he wants us to prove that we are taking the kids to daycare and that my husband has a 401K loan. Our lawyer has said, "He is going to be a pain in my ass!" Has anyone had to deal with the person like him? When he was done questioning us, 15 mins later, tells our lawyer he needs all this extra paperwork proving the daycare, 401K loan. The trustee looks to our lawyer and says, "Just send him everything you sent me". So, should we be worried?? Our lawyer says not to be worried but I just don't know. We can't afford a 13. Ugh!

[despritfreya]

I thought in a 7 you could not include the 401K loan? So why would he want proof?

While it is not included in means testing, it is a valid expense on Schedule J (at least in my district). Very easy to verify. OP is not clear where the expense was referenced.

[Fallonedward]

How could I find out if its a valid expense on Schedule J in my district? When I went thru the expenses with my attorney last week, I did not mention that we had a 401K Payback loan as earlier I was told on here that I could not include it. I guess I should probably mention it to him at our next appointment and filing date

While it is not included in means testing, it is a valid expense on Schedule J (at least in my district). Very easy to verify. OP is not clear where the expense was referenced.

[tobee43]

Went to our 341 yesterday, ugh! There was the usual trustee, our lawyer and us. Then this guy sits down next to me - no idea who he is. He acts like he is the king poop of the day. We get sworn in and then he just starts grilling us about things on our petition. He was the state appointed something or other from the trustee's office. Because we were above the average amount allowed but we were in the negative otherwise, he came to grill us. Our lawyer was not much help, he had his numbers mixed up on something and kept grilling me about this thing I had no idea on and then when he showed it to me, he was talking about the wrong thing. In the end, he wants us to prove that we are taking the kids to daycare and that my husband has a 401K loan. Our lawyer has said, "He is going to be a pain in my ass!" Has anyone had to deal with the person like him? When he was done questioning us, 15 mins later, tells our lawyer he needs all this extra paperwork proving the daycare, 401K loan. The trustee looks to our lawyer and says, "Just send him everything you sent me". So, should we be worried?? Our lawyer says not to be worried but I just don't know. We can't afford a 13. Ugh!

so sorry about your not so great experience....really no 341 is fun....however, your atty should have been advised about these questions...i would make HIM FIX IT....i'm certain it will be fine once the paperwork gets straighten out.

best of luck and let us know how you make out!

[despritfreya]

How could I find out if its a valid expense on Schedule J in my district? When I went thru the expenses with my attorney last week, I did not mention that we had a 401K Payback loan as earlier I was told on here that I could not include it. I guess I should probably mention it to him at our next appointment and filing date

Yes, check with your attny. How can you find out. . . other than checking with the attny? No clue. For our district that is just the way it has been for years. I'm not even sure if there is a reference to repayment of such loans in the Code - there may very well be - just never had to look for it.

Des.

[poormama]

I'm not sure what schedule it was on. The whole thing was a mess. Our lawyer said that the trustee guy was brand new and he jumbled a lot of things up. I sent her the daycare stuff today and hubby will send her the 401k loan info. It was definitely an interesting experience.

[LadyInTheRed]

Yes, check with your attny. How can you find out. . . other than checking with the attny? No clue. For our district that is just the way it has been for years. I'm not even sure if there is a reference to repayment of such loans in the Code - there may very well be - just never had to look for it.

Des.

It's in the Code.

Bankruptcy Code Section 1322(f):

A plan may not materially alter the terms of a loan described in section 362 (b)(19) and any amounts required to repay such loan shall not constitute “disposable income” under section 1325.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode11/usc_sec_11_00001322----000-.html

A 401k loan is a loan described in section 362(b)(19)

[despritfreya]

In response to Lady:

"It's in the Code. Bankruptcy Code Section 1322(f)"

Ah, I see. But what about a Chapter 7 budget (Schedule J)?

Des.

[LadyInTheRed]

In response to Lady:

"It's in the Code. Bankruptcy Code Section 1322(f)"

Ah, I see. But what about a Chapter 7 budget (Schedule J)?

Des.

Oh! I missed this was a Chap 7. I was surprised when I thought you weren't aware of how 401k loans are treated in Chap 13.

Nothing in the Code I can find on 401k load and Chap 7. The Bankruptcy Code is such a masterpiece of clarity!

I guess the issue is whether a Trustee would try to argue a case should be dismissed due to a totality of circumstances. Based on the case law I've read, if I filed a Chap 7 and the trustee petitioned for dismissal due to totality of circumstances because I deducted my 401K loan payment on Schedule J, I'd insist my attorney fight it.