341 Hearings - I observed 35 of them - here are my notes

[gman]

i don't use pacer...but i have a copy of the petition....right here....which line do you want me to check out??

What were the amounts for LINE 28, LINE 42, LINE 43 and LINE 44?

[tobee43]

What were the amounts for LINE 28, LINE 42, LINE 43 and LINE 44?

however, in reviewing our district....line 28....ZERO....i'm looking up the means test now to see if can remember what we put in lines 42, 43 and 44...i do know we were over the min. of the means test which is what i thought...but not only is each district different here, but each county as well...so what may apply to us, may not apply to others.

[tobee43]

and, frankly, after looking at this means test...i have to honestly say the court had to consider much more than these numbers i just figured out for that time.

and once again...about the cc debt..i do know that although it was argued, it really didn't matter because of our situation...it wasn't a cut and dry one. it was complex with tons of documents to supply our position.

[offthewall]

gman:

EXCELLENT!!! Well done!! Thank you for posting your hard work here....so very helpful to hear all of the details.

You are very wise for sitting in on the 341's. I have no doubt you have a great future ahead of you with this kind of attention and diligence! Looking forward to following your progress throughout your discharge and maybe even beyond!

[gman]

and, frankly, after looking at this means test...i have to honestly say the court had to consider much more than these numbers i just figured out for that time.

and once again...about the cc debt..i do know that although it was argued, it really didn't matter because of our situation...it wasn't a cut and dry one. it was complex with tons of documents to supply our position.

It sounds as if your strategy was to dump as many expenses into the Means Test as humanly possible - and force the Trustee to try and get rid of them one by one.

Do you have any idea what your final DMI was on your Means Test? It would be on Line 50.

Also - were you able to find your amounts for LINES 42, 43 and 44?

I actually like your strategy as opposed to be ultra-conservative.

[tobee43]

It sounds as if your strategy was to dump as many expenses into the Means Test as humanly possible - and force the Trustee to try and get rid of them one by one.

Do you have any idea what your final DMI was on your Means Test?

gman....our dmi was over -3500....(just fixed this for any future views)

i'm not really comfortable out in an open forum....but it was like a game of well played chess...planned carefully, mindfully, with so much thought with every single move that it's difficult to explain step by step.

it's almost as though one takes every single one of lifes lessons and simply applies them to one problem...using every single resource that you have.

[gman]

gman....our dmi was over 3500....

i'm not really comfortable out in an open forum....but it was like a game of well played chess...planned carefully, mindfully, with so much thought with every single move that it's difficult to explain step by step.

it's almost as though one takes every single one of lifes lessons and simply applies them to one problem...using every single resource that you have.

ok...i understand....open forum is not very private...

i think you did mean your dmi was NEGATIVE 3,500....right...???

If it was, then I think I understand what you and your attorney did to beat the Means Test...or should I say CLOBBER it!!!!

[tobee43]

and please don't disunderstand...we did everything on the up and up...it was just a "different' appoach...one that a young atty was willing to follow when we asked him.


i promise we did everything by the book.

[tobee43]

indeed....it was. sorry....i typo'ed the minus sign!

[tobee43]

CLOBBER it!!!!

you got it!!

[kartoons19]

Gman, your posting was so timely for me. I arrived very early for my 341, so I went to get some coffee, check email and the forum and there was your post. It was so helpful, thanks for posting it. I just made a rather long post of my experience under the 341 section.

I'm in a different district, but just a few observations. The trustee didn't ask about expenses at all, this also surprised me, but not as much after reading your post. He did not ask how much money I had today or even when I had on filing day, although he did take my bank statements for that time.

Anyway, it really is an easy process providing you are honest and prepared. Thanks again for taking the time to watch all of those cases and report back to us. It was very helpful for me.

[newbie2]

and, frankly, after looking at this means test...i have to honestly say the court had to consider much more than these numbers i just figured out for that time.

and once again...about the cc debt..i do know that although it was argued, it really didn't matter because of our situation...it wasn't a cut and dry one. it was complex with tons of documents to supply our position.

Exactly what I thought.

For others happening upon this thread, please don't think that you can include your existing credit card payments as expenses in order to keep you out of a Chapter 13. They are not included as an expense.

[tobee43]

Exactly what I thought.

For others happening upon this thread, please don't think that you can include your existing credit card payments as expenses in order to keep you out of a Chapter 13. They are not included as an expense.

newbie2 is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!! i'm not saying it can't be done, there just needs to be circumstances and documention supporting your position...and it's simply nothing that can be made up.

[wnguyen]

Thanks for the detailed report, gman. Good luck with your filing.

[Bell30656]

My attorney had got my tax return, driver's license and social security card from me just prior to the 341. When we sat down the trustee asked me my full name as I answered my lawyer handed him the tax return, license and SS card. The trustee glanced at them and handed them to me.

My lawyer then told the trustee about an opportunity that I had just received at work. I cringed. Even though the lawyer told me it would be no issue, I was worried. He explained about the promotion I had just received and how it would help me get my life restarted. This promotion had been published locally and I was very worried about how it would look there was a substantial raise over my current salary.

The trustee shook my hand and told me that I should look at bankruptcy as a snapshot of my financial situation on the date I filed rather than trying to view it as a movie. That was it, the 341 was over.