Dave Ramsey's books

[ChaseSucks]

Dave is not real high on bankruptcy. He professes to be christian and religious but it seems to be his own style of religion. Save your money on the make over and put it toward your filing fees and a lawyer. Here is the essence of it. Get out of debt either by working your butt off and paying off your bills, Or, file chapter 7. (I said 7 not 13)Then don't ever sign another contract on anything, except maybe a house. Don't ever ever pick up another credit card for any reason the rest of your life. (This means forever) Forget about your credit score. You don't need it, if you don't use credit. Worrying about your credit score is just about as stupid as worrying about your credit card interest rate. Cash is king so save a lot of it for those pot holes, murphy's law, loosing your job, getting sick etc. And to quote Dave "Act your wage"

[Cali]

I am not a DR fan at all. I think he is making money off those he claims to be helping to not get in debt. And I know he does donate some things, but if he really wanted to help wouldn't he just give it away to help everyone.

ChaseSucks - I don't agree with never having a credit card.

[fltoo]

His advice is invaluable. Although we all know how we got into this mess and how to live in the future after BK, he provides motivation for it.

He is very big on family first and only advocates second jobs as a temporary way to pay the debt. He also knows that Bk sometimes is the ony way out.

His financial advice is mainly to motivate you to stay out of debt and yes, he declared BK, the reason why he is a good spokeman for staying financially stable.

His mission is his job, so why would't he get paid for it? Your lawyer is helping you out of debt, so maybe ask your lawyer if he will do your case pro bono.

I am not a religious person and he is a devout Christian. You need to look at the whole picture of everything and anything, and not pick and choose what suits your needs............

IMO, if you think you need a credit card, if you don't go through a huge lifestyle change, if you think a new car is okay, if you were not affected greatly after your BK, you don't get IT, and maybe you could have lowered your standard of living and paid your bills instead of declaring BK.

[goingout]

I am not a DR fan at all. I think he is making money off those he claims to be helping to not get in debt. And I know he does donate some things, but if he really wanted to help wouldn't he just give it away to help everyone.

ChaseSucks - I don't agree with never having a credit card.

I really disagree with this. Just giving money away to people is not going to prevent them from getting into these kinds of messes again. People need to be taught and Dave Ramsey does a good job teaching as well as motivating people to manage thier finaces better.

[Minnymouth]

AS IN EVERYTHING IN LIFE - it ALL has a "price tag" attached to it!!! Even advice!!

Dave Ramseys books and seminars offer advice, suggestions, and possible solutions for folks that are in financial stress. Due to the fact that he too had to file bankruptcy in the past is a "bonus" in his presentations.

I do not fully agree with all of his suggestions, but he does have the basic good ideas that folks need to prevent bankruptcy and what causes it mostly.

Mostly "living beyond our means" , job loss, etc...

We don't have to agree with his methods, or the fact that he makes a living off of it now.
But I am glad to see that someone offers such valuable information to others.

My thoughts............

[ThreadsSnapping]

I agree with Dave on some things and on others think he is full of it. If you have 5K in CC debt then yes, getting a 2nd job and paying it off is a viable option and you can pay it off fairly quickly. Now if you have 25K in CC debt, it's not as easy to just get a job and pay it off in a year or so. But if you can combine it with some big budget cuts then that is the way you should probably go. Now if you have 50K in CC debt then realistically you will be paying it off forever and a 2nd job is probably not going to really help here and BK is probably your best option.

I agree with his cash only philosophy to a point. For a lot of people, it is the only way to get their spending under control and be able to pay down their debt. I think it is great while getting out of debt and learning to live on a budget. And for some people, it is the only way to avoid getting into moer debt, then it is the rght decision for them. But if after a year or 2 living on a cash only basis, you have truely changed your way with money, can follow a budget, have a savings account and now are in control of your money, then yes it may be ok for you to go get a credit card or two and use it responsibly. But that is a decision everyone needs to make for themselves and needs to be honest with themselves when they make that choice.

Most people who call his show, seem to need the cold turkey method to stop spending and get their financial lives back in order. If you can realistically pay off your debt in a year to 18 months, can get a second job and want to avoid bk, then go for it. Other wise take the parts of his program that you can use, ie. cash only while learning to live within your means and no credit until you do so, and ignore the rest.

TS

[ambersss]

I don't have a huge problem with Dave Ramsey. I like most of his advice except that there are many people that are trying to avoid bk at all costs when financially it does not make sense to keep trying to pay these debts.

A person with children should not work two or three jobs (as Dave suggests)to pay off a huge debt that could take 10 years or more to wittle away. Kids would never see their parents. That way of thinking causes all kinds of stress that harms families and health and wellbeing.

I also don't like the fact that you have to pay to use his forums. I feel like that's just cruel, especially when his books do so well. I do believe that if it were another pay website, Dave would say to cut it out of the budget!

But thats the idea ....work 3 jobs ....so you can pay for his books and forum, instead of paying your attorney and help yourself.

[Over our heads]

Ok, I am not a DR fan either, tho my DH thinks the man is awesome.

He does have good pointers, and they will work, but when you are so this far under, Dave's way just isn't going to work.

It irks me to no end that some of his workshops cost so much. Hello, we are trying to get out of debt. While I totally understand that he needs to earn a living too, he has chosen to try and help people wrangle their finances.

For some of us, getting a 2nd job, or for the SAH-parent to get a job would actually cost us money or our marriage. Neither of which I am willing to sacrifice.

[Hoos Crazy]

As a bankruptcy lawyer, I obviously disagree with Dave Ramsey's strong bias against filing for bankruptcy protection.

Although we disagree, I think reading his books is actually a very good exercise for anyone in financial distress. Why? Because reading his work will open your mind to a new way of thinking about debt. For some people, his rather drastic approach will work. For others, bankruptcy really is the best/only option. But everyone can stand to learn something from his approach. New ways of thinking about money can't hurt.

[wonkettegirl]

He offends me with his tag line (said at the end of EVERY radio show) "The only way to financial peace is through the King of Peace" [or something like that]. Oh, OK, Dave: ONLY Christians can find financial peace? Jews, Muslims, Atheists, etc., can NEVER achieve financial peace? Bite me.

[CurtInKS]

I used to really enjoy listening to DR but he just gets so condescending to his callers, and his advice in many cases, is so far from realistic, if it were me on the other end, I'd tell him he's a dope. And his Friday shows, where he has people do their debt free screams, makes me want to puke, because most of them have triple my income, half my debt, and want a cookie for doing what they did. Do I operate on a strict budget, similar to what dave teaches? Yep, even use the envelopes, but I'd never give the guy a penny. Making millions on the backs of the bankrupt isn't Christian. He even sent me information on us taking our bankruptcy education through him. For someone so dead set against it, he isn't too proud not to try and make a buck of it. Hypocrite.

[goingout]

But thats the idea ....work 3 jobs ....so you can pay for his books and forum, instead of paying your attorney and help yourself.

Honestly, I really don't think 10 dollars for a book to help yourself is asking too much. The Finacial Peace University is 100 for 13 weeks and a lifetime membership. My lawyer has been a couple of thousand. Plus, the lawyer hasn't taught me any life skills. I think his prices are very fair and I don't feel gouged.

[fireworks]

I listen to Dave's radio show a couple times a week. He's on in the mid-afternoon here and I'm not always able to catch it. Yes, he's very against bankruptcy, for two reasons:

1 - it's an emotional roller coaster which "tears you up" (his words)
2 - you owe the money - bankruptcy frees you from it, legally, but morally it's still a debt that you owe.

#1 I can agree with him about and I'm only just beginning the process. I've met with and retained a lawyer, shut down my business (talk about an emotional roller coaster) and I'm in the process of selling off the remaining inventory and supplies on eBay while I gather the paperwork for the BK and look for a new job. However, the last 6 years of my life have been an emotional roller coaster trying to keep my business running while I work 14-16 hour days 6 days a week and take cash advances on my credit cards to pay my bills. As far as that goes it's the lesser of two evils. Now that I've stopped paying my credit cards I'm more relaxed than I've been in years.

#2, yes there's still a moral obligation there that tugs at me. The vindictive side of me says that my credit card companies have screwed me over long enough with absurd interest rates and high fees. The other side of me says that I signed the contract, knowing that they would raise my rates if I screwed up, and it was my fault that I missed the payments and caused the late fees and high rates. I'm still struggling a bit with the ethics of that. Some of my biggest creditors were actually very easy to deal with and didn't raise my interest rates until I was well over 30 days past due on $25000+ debt. The really rude ones were the smaller credit lines anyway. Chase and AmEx can piss off. USAA I feel sorry for. I opened that account only a couple of years ago, transferred a bunch of debt over to them, bought some inventory on the card, was late on several payments. They didn't charge me a late fee or raise my rate (from the 9.9% it started at). At some point (over a year in) they sent me a letter to say I could either close the account and pay it under the current terms, or they were raising my rate. I elected to close the account and keep my 9.9%. Now, less than a year later, I'm filing BK on them. I know they plan that a certain percentage of customers will file BK and work that into their formulas, but man...I've really screwed them over.

As much as he's against it and doesn't recommend it, he says all the time that "sometimes good people file bankruptcy." He's aware that it happens, but he thinks it happens all to often to people who aren't really bankrupt and would be able to work through their debt without filing and end up better off in the end (and that many BK lawyers push people into it to make a quick buck). I hear people call in all the time who want to file bankruptcy on $10K of credit card debt when they're making $40K a year. In most cases, if they just buckle down a bit and quit living the high life for a year or two, they could pay that off.

Yes, Dave filed bankruptcy years ago (I think he says about 20 years ago) when he lost his shirt in the real estate business. Once he made a bunch of money he paid all of those creditors back even though he wasn't legally obligated to do so. I have no problem with him making money off of giving advice - generally what he has to say is very good, and he should be compensated for his time and expertise. I certainly expect the same of my customers.

From listening to his radio show for several months (haven't read his book, but know the gist from the show) I can tell you what he would have said if I had called him back at the first of the year. With over $130K in credit cards, about $12K in student loan debt, a couple thousand in back taxes owed to the IRS and state unemployment, plus a $3000 balance on a car and a $60K balance on a mortgage, with my store bringing in less than $1K profit each month and credit card minimums around 2K each month total, he would tell me:
1 - close the store, sell off what I can for as much as I can.
2 - stop paying credit cards or any other non-essentials - pay the mortgage, buy food, pay the light bill. When the collectors call, tell them I have no job and will not be paying them until I do.
3 - Tell any collectors that if they sue us for the money that we don't have, we'll be forced to file bankruptcy.
4 - Pay off the taxes that we owe FIRST to get the IRS off of our backs
5 - since we're pretty close to paying off the one car with a lien on it, pay it off as soon as possible. At this point it almost qualifies as a beater anyway.
6 - get a job or three.
7 - live very frugally - "beans and rice, rice and beans" is his catchphrase
8 - store up some cash, when I have a good pile call my smallest creditor and make them an offer. Keep working up the ladder until they're paid off.
9 - at any point, if a creditor sues us, they've forced us to file bankruptcy.

That's good advice, generally. If I were to get a good job paying $40-50K then I might be able to hack it. Given the job market around here, my lack of any marketable degree or certification and the huge amount of debt that I've built up, I have very little faith that I can make it through step 8 before someone sues me. I know that if I were to pay off a creditor, then another one sues and I have to file BK, then there will be problems with "preferential payments." I'm also fairly certain that it would take a bigger toll on my credit score in the long run because I would have months or possibly years of late payments and THEN a bankruptcy. While I'm not ever planning to go into debt to finance a business or any luxury purchases, at some point in the next 3-5 years I do hope to buy a new home (thankfully I'll qualify for a VA loan at that time). Taking all of that into consideration, I've done 1 and 2, working on 4-7, skipping 8 and going straight to 9. At this point I'm just waiting until I get the paperwork together and have a steady income.

I listen to Dave, I agree with him most of the time. He has very good advice for those who are working a job and having trouble making ends meet. He also understands being self-employed and has good advice for us also. I'm not following his plans to the letter but I definitely agree with his principles and 95% of his practical advice.

@BK2008 - I've heard him coach several people through the "net profit" of taking a second job (or having the second parent work) if it requires putting the kids in daycare. He's been very realistic about that. If you make $10/hour delivering pizzas as your evening job and it costs you $8/hour to have your kids taken care of during those hours, that's no good.

@ambersss - goingout said it. I can't add anything to it.

@CurtInKS - do you expect that because he's a Christian he'll work for free? Does your lawyer work for free? Your pastor? Do you? The man has to pay his bills somehow. He charges what he charges because he can. Hurrah capitalism.

@wonkettegirl - with any advice from anyone, you have to pick and choose what you're going to really pay attention to. Like everything else he says on his show, that's his opinion. He also has a "scripture of the day" or something like that and consistently quotes Bible at people (Proverbs 22:7 is a favorite). If all of that offends you, find a different show to listen to.

[Brendon]

Dave Ramsey gives you the same advice that your grandmother would. Live on less than you make and don't take on debt... We all know what that leads to. We all feel we are entitled to things which are very often beyond our means whether it be new car, a new flatscreen TV, eating out or just simply we deserve what the next guy has. I think it is possible to live without a car payment. The average car will depreciate in value 60% over the first 5 years. That means if you can waste $30,000 and never miss it, then go ahead. Statistically there are VERY few people that fit that profile, yet many people drive a car they can't afford. Here's an average to think about; The average american car payment is close to $500 per month. With the average American salary hovering close to $40,000 per year, this means the average person works almost 4 hours a day to pay for this new car!!! (source:Sarah A. Webster, Detroit Free Press Business Writer. http://automotive-advertising-market...-500-term.html)


$484 a month invested from age 35 to 65 with the average rate of return of the stock market will be worth over $5 million dollars when you retire!!

Dave's message is simple. Get off your butt and don't take the easy way out. For many people bk is unavoidable for a number of reasons. (medical bills is #1 reason) but for many people bankruptcy was the answer after living beyond their means and not being fiscally responsible. That is just not good enough, folks.

I am not against bankruptcy for obvious reasons, but I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. My failed business and bankruptcy is truly the hardest thing my family has ever gone through, and I can certainly see how debt problems can rip a family apart. Therefore I will put forth every ounce of effort I can to live debt free, and hope anyone who has been through a bk will do the same. Debt is in no way a tool, but it will always be an anchor. Whether you like his message or not, everyone should strive for the results he preaches about.

[CurtInKS]

@CurtInKS - do you expect that because he's a Christian he'll work for free? Does your lawyer work for free? Your pastor? Do you? The man has to pay his bills somehow. He charges what he charges because he can. Hurrah capitalism.

I don't expect a good Christian to exploit people when they are at their lowest, and then preach against it, on his radio show. DR is a hypocrite plain and simple, and not a good Christian. He can make all the money he wants, it's America and he has that right. And if making some of it, is by doing bankruptcy counseling, and then advocating against it, doesn't hurt his morality, then I guess money can buy happiness. No I don't expect him to work for free, and to you to insinuate that's what I meant, wasn't very bright on your part.