Dave Ramsey's books

[spearmint]

I can't stand him.

[Brendon]

CurtinKs- The only people that are pro-bk are the bk attorneys. No one in their right mind advocates spend, spend, spend then file bk. Dave is not anti-bk, he only recommends it as an absolute last resort. Many people have debt beyond their control and have bk there to help get their lives back in order. However many people file bk because they acquire debt like it's their job...cars they can't afford, new furniture living beyond their means etc. Your income is your best wealth building tool, so don't tie it up making payments on everything. It's really pretty simple. It's common sense that's not so common. Your entitled to your opinion, I just dont understand where you are coming from.

[CurtInKS]

CurtinKs- The only people that are pro-bk are the bk attorneys. No one in their right mind advocates spend, spend, spend then file bk. Dave is not anti-bk, he only recommends it as an absolute last resort. Many people have debt beyond their control and have bk there to help get their lives back in order. However many people file bk because they acquire debt like it's their job...cars they can't afford, new furniture living beyond their means etc. Your income is your best wealth building tool, so don't tie it up making payments on everything. It's really pretty simple. It's common sense that's not so common. Your entitled to your opinion, I just dont understand where you are coming from.

I don't like hypocrites, and Dave is one. I really can't make it any easier to understand than that. If you need further explanation, I'm sorry but I can't help you. Go quote Dave's sermons to someone else.

[fireworks]

Curt, I'm still not catching where Dave is a hypocrite or exploiting anyone. Dave says that bankruptcy is a last resort but also realizes that sometimes it's the only option. If you're filing for bankruptcy, you MUST take a course (in my state at least) on money management. Why not take his? His course will teach you strategies to avoid bankruptcy in the future, and for many people will point out what they did in the past that they shouldn't do any more.

I know that for many people, bankruptcy is brought on by medical issues, job loss, etc. In my case I have a business that failed and still have a mountain of debt from it. In MOST of those situations, including mine, if you had a pile of money set away for a rainy day and didn't have debt to begin with, the medical issue/job loss/whatever wouldn't push you over the edge. That's a big part of what Dave teaches and is certainly true in my case.

So tell me, what would a "good Christian" do in that situation? If the hypothetical "good Christian," who is a financial counselor by trade, has a client come to him to say "I'm failing for bankruptcy," what should he do?

[goingout]

I'm not getting the hypocrite accusation either. It's not like there's a line in the sand between the bankrupt or the non-bankrupt and you need to swear allegiance to one or the other. I think most everyone can agree bankruptcy is something to be avoided. If you can avoid it DR offers strategies to do so, if you can't his strategies can help to avoid it again in the future.

Also, his philosophy is to pay down debt and then accumulate wealth in order to give wealth. So, the ultimate goal of his plan is to bless others through charitable giving, which is a Christian goal, but is not exclusive to Christianity.

He does preach a little and draw inspiration from the Bible, but the principals are pretty universal. And, money is money, it knows no belief system.

[CurtInKS]

Curt, I'm still not catching where Dave is a hypocrite or exploiting anyone.

I understand that you don't. We can agree to disagree. You posts indicate to me, you are a DR fan, and having listened to him out of necessity the past five years, I get how infallible he is to his fans. No big deal. I'm moving on. I don't like DR, and his attitude, and would never give him a penny and I'll leave it at that. Cheers.

[Brendon]

I don't like hypocrites, and Dave is one. I really can't make it any easier to understand than that. If you need further explanation, I'm sorry but I can't help you. Go quote Dave's sermons to someone else.

CurtinKS-

Best of luck to you, and hope I didn't ruffle your feathers too hard. I am a fan but don't mean to preach. We all have financial goals to obtain, and we all know there are different ways to get there. I can only hope that one day bankrupcty will be a distant memory for everyone on this forum. You seem like an intelligent guy and I respect your opinion. Again, good luck to you.

[pa308]

And his Friday shows, where he has people do their debt free screams, makes me want to puke, because most of them have triple my income, half my debt, and want a cookie for doing what they did. Hypocrite.

His show just began airing in our area and from seeing his name on here I figured I'd watch. Curt you are so right about the debt free screamers making 6 figures and becoming debt free. Dave I make 500k a year and paid off my 25k in debt in a year woohoo.

[HHM]

I don't see the hypocrite thing either.

As was previously pointed out, the advice he gives is fairly sound. I think he takes it a little far...i.e. that you should try to live on 1/3 of your income, etc; that would be extremely difficult in many parts of the country if you are making less than $60K gross per year. But his general approach toward money is similar to anyone else that gives advice.

Mortgages are liabilities not assets.
You should save $xxx amount per month
If you are in debt, you should cut your expenses and devout all disposible income to paying if off to GET OUT OF DEBT.
You should be on a cash budget.
etc etc.

Hypocrit or not, there is nothing generally wrong with his advice and approach toward money.

[CurtInKS]

CurtinKS-

Best of luck to you, and hope I didn't ruffle your feathers too hard. I am a fan but don't mean to preach. We all have financial goals to obtain, and we all know there are different ways to get there. I can only hope that one day bankrupcty will be a distant memory for everyone on this forum. You seem like an intelligent guy and I respect your opinion. Again, good luck to you.

No feathers ruffled at all. Cheers.

[southernbelle]

I don't have a problem with Dave and think his advice is okay, but I don't believe in exploiting people when they need help the most. If people are struggling to begin with, I don't believe in persuading them to spend money they don't have on seminars and books.

Suze Orman is no guru, but her free downloads have been helpful and I support anyone willing to make their advice free to people that need it the most.

Just my opinion anyway.

[Brendon]

I don't have a problem with Dave and think his advice is okay, but I don't believe in exploiting people when they need help the most. If people are struggling to begin with, I don't believe in persuading them to spend money they don't have on seminars and books.

Suze Orman is no guru, but her free downloads have been helpful and I support anyone willing to make their advice free to people that need it the most.

Just my opinion anyway.

Still don't get the exploiting.. and as far as persuading people to spend money on his seminars and books, He has a FREE radio show, a FREE television show, and FREE downloads on i-tunes. You can also check out his books at the library for FREE!

[CurtInKS]

One final point of clarification on this issue, and then I'll leave it alone. I only say this because I don't want to be mis-represented. Dave's books and seminars I have no issue with.


However, I have listened to Dave, pretty regularly for several years, and I cannot recall a single instance where he's said "yes you should declare bankruptcy". This is what I hear a lot. "YOu aren't bankrupt, you're broke". And "if this situation doesn't turn around in the next year, you might be bankrupt". Now as an intelligent person, that's a guy hedging his bets, and getting himself off the hook without having to say someone should. Keeps his rep, so to speak.


Now, the issue I have with him is this. As a person to advocates so strongly against bk, why would he attempt to make money off people who've filed, and have to do the counseling? IMO, that's hypocritical. It's making money, off the process he preaches against so hard. If you disagree so be it, but that's my point of view on it. I laughed out loud, when I got his offer in the mail. I equate it to a drug counselor who preaches that there's never an instance for someone to use drugs, but when they do, he sells them paraphernalia. I don't think it's right and if I were in his situation(a millionaire) I wouldn't do it. It has forever damaged his reputation to me.

[2muchcc]

Financial Peace University

We are now taking the Financial Peace University class by Dave Ramsey. I think it is a great place to get a fresh start. The class provides the step-by-step instructions that have made the difference. I read the books but the class with a small group for support, and setting weekly goals has really made us get focused with our money.

I had previously taken an online course and it was not nearly as intense. It took less than 1 hour and would fill the requirement for bankruptcy.

As for Dave's view of bankruptcy, I found a call on his website for class members where he was accused of encouraging bankruptcy (I don't know where the caller got that from) He said he does believe that it is a last resort and the behavior needs to change to prevent future problems.

[BkinTX]

I borrowed FPU from a family member and I think some of it was corny ("peace puppies?") but there was a lot of good information and motivation in the book.

I haven't read any of his other books but have read some of his advice from his website. I think it's one of those things where you take what is useful to you and just don't bother with the rest.

I don't like DR as a person for some of the reasons others have given, but he is very skilled at providing financial advice for novices.