Think I may sue Verizon Wireless!

[macahs]

Well, I have in my hands a collection notice dated July 28th, 2006 from AMO Recoveries, who just bought this debt from Verizon Wireless shortly before.

We filed BK Oct. 05, discharged June 5th or 6th, 06.

Verizon was included in our BK but they do not state anything on our reports about the BK - only a charge off, bad debt, etc. etc. w/ a balance of $1300.

We have had several calls from AMO, 2 of which I have saved on my voice mail, trying to collect this debt for Verizon.

Well, I spoke w/ a guy named Jason shortly after getting this collection notice and politely told him we filed bk and who our attorney is. I also asked him when they were sold this debt (which if memory serves me correctly was only a few weeks before but it was very recent and after the discharge). He said he would update the account for me.

I thought that was the end of that and really didn't think much more of it.

Well, on Sat. (8/19) my husband listened to another message (actually 2 of them) from a lady named Sara H. calling from AMO. He called her back and told her we've already talked to Jason and informed him we filed bk and this was included and gave our attorney's information. He told her he is not giving it again, that it's not his responsibility and she .. get this... starts SCREAMING at him telling him she will not stop calling until she gets that information from him and I believe he hung up on her.

So, me being the outspoken person I am - got all fired up (which isn't good considering I'm about to give birth in a month) and called in to their company. I asked to speak with a supervisor. I ended up w/ a Miss Smith who claimed she was a supervisor. I informed her of how rude this lady Sara was and how she was screaming at my husband. I was basically told that they have ever right to contact me until we give them our attorney's name again. I told her, very matter of fact, that we are NOT going to because it's not our responsibility. We have once and the fact that they are calling us either during or after a bk in which they were included is against the law and we can sue them for this. She got very upset with me and point blank told me we will continue to get calls until we provide the information they need and hung up on me!

Ahh, my blood is boiling just thinking of it.

I guess my question is - is this worth pursuing?

If so, who do I go after? Verizon for selling our debt when it was included or AMO for attempting the collection? AMO just purchased the debt, so I'm assuming they were not aware of the bk but that shouldn't matter, correct?

Thanks - I needed to get that off my chest.

BTW, I will say we have not had a single call since - but it has only been 4 days.

[conan55]

Go after the debt collector. Here's a helpful link, and no, I'm not affiliated with them in any way. I just did a google search on AMO Recoveries and this Atty's site was part of the retuned hits.

http://www.edcombs.com/CM/Actions/actions108.asp

I hate debt collectors, I was abused by one agency prior to filing my bankruptcy. You can also call your local police dept. and file a complaint, then you can notify your state's attorney general that you're being harassed.

[macahs]

Thanks for the reply.

I guess I just have to figure out if they are in fact in violation, meaning they willfully violated the Automatic Stay. If they were not made privy to the BK from Verizon, then they may only be in violation on a technical level, which may not hold up in court. It sounds like the interpretation of this Stay is widely construed throughout the courts. One judge may not care if it was a computer error that you received a collection notice during a BK - he'll order judgement against the creditor, another judge may be a lot more forgiving and find in favor of the creditor.

I'm doing a lot of research on the FCRA and Fair and Accurate Credit Transaction Act as well, but that's chalking up to a whole lot of confusion at 1:30am.

I need to get to the bottom of Verizon selling this debt, therefore causing us to receive harassing phone calls, etc. I've sent Verizon a dispute letter due to the inaccurate reporting of the debt and received confirmation that is was delivered- I'm just waiting now. I did include that they sold the debt to a collection agency who is now contacting me and in direct violation. We'll see what they come back with!

[pink_amulet]

In all honesty, it's not worth the hassle. The CA really don't care if you take them to court. Most lawyers won't bother unless you have a few people complaining to sue, and you all sue together (class action).
We had a CA (JBC Legal) call us, threaten us, send us bills, call our neighbors, call after BK over an account that wasn;t even vailad!!! Even our lawyer call them 4 times, and faxed the discharge papers twice and told them not to call again, that they were in violation the Fair Debt Act. It was falling on deaf ears.
Our lawyer said it is $1000 for each violation,(this CA had racked up about 12 violations = $12,000 in our favor) however if it actually got to court, the court would rule in their favor for about half of the violations. Stupid excuses, like automatic billing, never got the papers, unable to make contact with us, or sold debt before they relized....etc and judges let all of them slide on most. Or the CAs tie up the case with countenance after continuance to get more "proof", they string the victims out long enough that they just rather be done with it. Worse case, if you did win, the CA would just file BK on you...it's a vicious circle. Which is bogus!! It pisses me off. So while everyone STANDS by the Fair Debt Act, *****es about every violation, and jumps at the chance to sue, it's not all that easy.

Anyways we let our case go.....it wasn't worth our time...it was in our past (we closed that chapter and all the bull $%#t) , and have moved on to a better life, building our credit, and getting ready to look for our first home!!

[macahs]

I'm not the kind of person to really waste my time either but I guess for me, it's a double whammy that not only am I getting these types of calls (when I definitely don't need the stress) but Verizon is also blantantly reporting inaccurately on my reports.

When you say CA, are you saying Credit Agency but meaning Creditor? I'm assuming that's what you meant but just wanted to make sure.

You know, if I don't get another call or letter from them, I'd be just fine to move on but if I keep getting harassed then I may very well pursue something. The very least report them to the FTC so it's on file. Enough complaints against a co. and they'll be in some serious trouble.

Thanks for sharing your experience, I appreciate it.

I am curious though - when you said your lawyer said each violation - by violation are you meaning with each call and each letter? So for instance where I was called at least 3 times and received 1 letter - that is 4 violations? I guess I'm just trying to understand what exactly "each violation" means.

Thanks again!

In all honesty, it's not worth the hassle. The CA really don't care if you take them to court. Most lawyers won't bother unless you have a few people complaining to sue, and you all sue together (class action).
We had a CA (JBC Legal) call us, threaten us, send us bills, call our neighbors, call after BK over an account that wasn;t even vailad!!! Even our lawyer call them 4 times, and faxed the discharge papers twice and told them not to call again, that they were in violation the Fair Debt Act. It was falling on deaf ears.
Our lawyer said it is $1000 for each violation,(this CA had racked up about 12 violations = $12,000 in our favor) however if it actually got to court, the court would rule in their favor for about half of the violations. Stupid excuses, like automatic billing, never got the papers, unable to make contact with us, or sold debt before they relized....etc and judges let all of them slide on most. Or the CAs tie up the case with countenance after continuance to get more "proof", they string the victims out long enough that they just rather be done with it. Worse case, if you did win, the CA would just file BK on you...it's a vicious circle. Which is bogus!! It pisses me off. So while everyone STANDS by the Fair Debt Act, *****es about every violation, and jumps at the chance to sue, it's not all that easy.

Anyways we let our case go.....it wasn't worth our time...it was in our past (we closed that chapter and all the bull $%#t) , and have moved on to a better life, building our credit, and getting ready to look for our first home!!

[pink_amulet]

I'm not the kind of person to really waste my time either but I guess for me, it's a double whammy that not only am I getting these types of calls (when I definitely don't need the stress) but Verizon is also blantantly reporting inaccurately on my reports.

When you say CA, are you saying Credit Agency but meaning Creditor? I'm assuming that's what you meant but just wanted to make sure.

You know, if I don't get another call or letter from them, I'd be just fine to move on but if I keep getting harassed then I may very well pursue something. The very least report them to the FTC so it's on file. Enough complaints against a co. and they'll be in some serious trouble.

Thanks for sharing your experience, I appreciate it.

I am curious though - when you said your lawyer said each violation - by violation are you meaning with each call and each letter? So for instance where I was called at least 3 times and received 1 letter - that is 4 violations? I guess I'm just trying to understand what exactly "each violation" means.

Thanks again!

We had a CA..collection agency aka Debt collector..(3rd party)


OK the courts allow them to contact you, call you send letters, etc, it is their job...
HOWEVER..
when they fall in certian catagories, it becomes a $1000 violations (in IL) ...calling after hours, excessive letters after discharge, threatening, calling names....are BIG violations ...we had JBC Legal for at least 12 violations.

Do a follow up phone call to Verizon. Ask to speak with a supervior at Verizon, and wait on the phone wihile they update you account so you dont hear anything from them again.
When you are disputing the account with credit reports, are you sending your dispute by certified mail? is the time limit exceeded for them to respond yet? if so then mail them another copy of the dated letter and reciept from the certified mail to the credit report, and do a followup letter....with your demands. See what that gets you......it a big waiting game....LOL It sucks i know!!
Good Luck

[macahs]

"We had a CA..collection agency"

Duh - sorry - I was obviously having a blonde moment!

So calling and/or sending letters when there's an Automatic Stay - is that a violation in the sense of a $1000 fine as well? You would think it would fall under the same catagory but all the research I've done says actual damages (attorney fees, reposessed property, etc.) and possibly punitive damages but really - other than being about due to have a baby and them stressing the heck out of me - I have no actual damages? Well, if they report to the bureaus (the CA, not Verizon) after being informed of the BK - then it turns into actual damages I would think.

Yes, all my stuff went out certified on 8/15 - so almost 10 days ago.

I think I may put together a letter for this CA (certified of course) reiterating that we filed BK and to stop any and all collection efforts. Also remind them that they've already been in violation of the Automatic Stay by calling and mailing collection notices. I'll CC Verizon and my attorney. I very much doubt I'll hear back from them after that but you never know!

Thanks again!

[pink_amulet]

"We had a CA..collection agency"

Duh - sorry - I was obviously having a blonde moment!

So calling and/or sending letters when there's an Automatic Stay - is that a violation in the sense of a $1000 fine as well? You would think it would fall under the same catagory but all the research I've done says actual damages (attorney fees, reposessed property, etc.) and possibly punitive damages but really - other than being about due to have a baby and them stressing the heck out of me - I have no actual damages? Well, if they report to the bureaus (the CA, not Verizon) after being informed of the BK - then it turns into actual damages I would think.

Yes, all my stuff went out certified on 8/15 - so almost 10 days ago.

I think I may put together a letter for this CA (certified of course) reiterating that we filed BK and to stop any and all collection efforts. Also remind them that they've already been in violation of the Automatic Stay by calling and mailing collection notices. I'll CC Verizon and my attorney. I very much doubt I'll hear back from them after that but you never know!

Thanks again!

You will need to be patient....wait for the credit report companies verify the debt, and wait to hear back from Verizon about why this new company is calling you.....it stinks, but it's a big waiting game. I know we are still under the waiting game with another account.

About the violations and trying to sue. Your situation is fuzzy...here is the reasons why...
#1 This new company calling you, and sending you letters. ...I take it were not on your Matrix?? correct, which makes it ALOT harder to make a case against them. All they have to do is say "we didn't know about their BK" it's your word against theirs, and court will see in their favor. So weather they committed one violation, or 20...it won't make a difference.
#2 You will have to prove that Verizon sold you debt AFTER your bk was discharged.....and they aren't going to pony up any evidence against themselves. Just because the new agency is trying to collect, doesn't mean they haven't been sitting on this account for a while.
#3 about the violation amount....In Illinois was $1000/per.

Did you file with a lawyer? if so follow-up with them about this and see what they say.

Good luck

[tinroofrusted]

Actually....


they are now in contempt of Court of violating the automatic stay of a discharge.

They could be held and fined and jailed for this....

[macahs]

Pink:

Thank you once again. That's exactly what I was thinking - since they 'technically' weren't on my Matrix - they could play that card. This is why I am keeping all documented notes that state we made them well aware. Also, this guy Jason did tell me Verizon had just sold them the account (which would have been post-discharge), which is why they started the collection process.

This is the letter I am sending certified today. Don't know how much of it will hold up but it's what I thought was a good start.

Sorry if it's long..

*************
To Whom It May Concern:

In October 2005, I filed Chapter 7 Bankruptcy through the NH Bankruptcy Court. The Verizon Wireless debt I owed that you are trying to collect on was included in the bankruptcy.

AMO Recoveries began collection calls late July, from a gentleman named Jason. One of these calls is saved on our voice mail. I also have in my hands a collection letter (enclosed) dated July 28th, 2006 in the amount of $1597.28.

Another phone call from Jason was received after this collection letter was received. My wife, <name edited>, spoke with Jason and informed him we had in fact filed Chapter 7 Bankruptcy in Oct. 2005 and this debt was included, therefore we should not be receiving any phone calls or collection attempts. She also gave Jason our Attorney’s information.

Another representative, Sarah Hitson, called after this phone call with Jason several times – which is also saved on our voice mail. On 8/19/06, after listening to another voice mail from Sarah, I called her back and told her we have already informed AMO Recoveries of our Bankruptcy and that this debt was included. I informed her I already gave AMO Recoveries my Attorney’s information and was not going to provide the information again. Sarah then proceeded to become irate with me, yelling at me, saying she will continue to contact me until she is satisfied with the information I give her. She then hung up on me.

Following this phone call with Sarah, my wife called back to AMO Recoveries (at 9:57am, same day) to speak with a supervisor and reached a “Miss Smith”. She explained the harassing nature of Sarah Hitson’s call and the fact AMO Recoveries is in violation of not only the Automatic Stay but also the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Miss Smith then proceeded to get upset with my wife, stating AMO Recoveries is in fact entitled to call us until we furnish them with the information they feel is adequate. She also made it clear AMO Recoveries is in no way in violation of any laws.

I have consulted with my attorney and demand AMO Recoveries cease and desist any and all collection attempts on this debt. If such activities do not stop, I will pursue any and all legal recourse I am entitled to at a State and Federal level. Also note that if AMO Recoveries reports any negative information on my credit report in regards to this debt, be warned that you are willfully and knowingly violating my rights under both the Automatic Stay and Fair Credit Reporting Act laws. You should also note your business practices will be reported to the Federal Trade Commission.

Let this letter serve as a formal request that AMO Recoveries provide, in writing and within 30 days, proof that you or your principal is in fact the assignee of the debt, described in your correspondence and that you are legally authorized to attempt to collect the claimed debt. Furthermore, also include how you obtained this debt (when this debt was sold to AMO Recoveries, etc), by whom and that person(s) contact information.

Please contact my Attorney should you have any further questions

[pink_amulet]

Actually....


they are now in contempt of Court of violating the automatic stay of a discharge.

They could be held and fined and jailed for this....

I agree they ALL should be fined and jailed..I hate all of them all....LOL
HOWEVER...
What about if they did not know about the BK...they were NOT on her matrix? They are allowed some margin of error, even though it's not right for us. How can they be prosecuted for something they had no idea existed?
KWIM?

[pink_amulet]

Pink:

Thank you once again. That's exactly what I was thinking - since they 'technically' weren't on my Matrix - they could play that card. This is why I am keeping all documented notes that state we made them well aware. Also, this guy Jason did tell me Verizon had just sold them the account (which would have been post-discharge), which is why they started the collection process.

This is the letter I am sending certified today. Don't know how much of it will hold up but it's what I thought was a good start.

Sorry if it's long..

*************
To Whom It May Concern:

If it were me I wouldn't even go into that much detail. Send a certified letter to AMO..


Dear AMO,

I have received the following collection letter dated __date___ regarding account __###_____. This account was discharged through CH7 bankruptcy on __date____ for amount __$$____ under file case # ____#####__.

Any further correspondence, should be done through my lawyer _____lawyers name, address and phone number______.

Sincerely,

______your name_________
________date_______


Keep it simple to avoid any other hassles.KWIM?

Good luck.

[macahs]

Someone has to be responsible - whether it's Verizon for selling a bad debt knowing full well it was included in a bk?

If they (AMO) continue the collection attempts after receiving my letter - THEN they could very well be held liable.

To answer your other post - I thought of keeping it simple but thought if I send them something certified stating they are violating laws and why they are - they can't play dumb. If they continue to do so, they are knowingly and willingly violating our rights.

BTW, if I didn't mention - the debt is in my husband's name - which is why the letter was written as though from him. Hehe, I thought that may seem a little confusing to some.

I agree they ALL should be fined and jailed..I hate all of them all....LOL
HOWEVER...
What about if they did not know about the BK...they were NOT on her matrix? They are allowed some margin of error, even though it's not right for us. How can they be prosecuted for something they had no idea existed?
KWIM?

[tinroofrusted]

Someone has to be responsible - whether it's Verizon for selling a bad debt knowing full well it was included in a bk?

If they (AMO) continue the collection attempts after receiving my letter - THEN they could very well be held liable.

To answer your other post - I thought of keeping it simple but thought if I send them something certified stating they are violating laws and why they are - they can't play dumb. If they continue to do so, they are knowingly and willingly violating our rights.

BTW, if I didn't mention - the debt is in my husband's name - which is why the letter was written as though from him. Hehe, I thought that may seem a little confusing to some.

Good point.
I would do some research on this about the legalities of selling a discharged debt. Somethings got to give!

[macahs]

I feel foolish asking my lawyer because I don't want to seem as though I'm being 'sue happy' but that's NOT what this is about. This is about standing up for our rights and not just lying down and getting walked all over.

Good point.
I would do some research on this about the legalities of selling a discharged debt. Somethings got to give!