Banks won't help

[tada]

When were you discharged?

I have to say, these sorts of threads are actually depressing...the fervor with which people want to get back in debt and the mis placed importance placed on a credit score means that after going through BK, you haven't learned the FULL lesson bankruptcy. I know the excuses will start flying....blah blah blah, want a house, it effects employment (poppy-cock). Most wealthy, truly successful people are actually credit ghosts because they DON'T USE CREDIT. It is not actually unreasonable to think you can buy a car for CASH and g-a-s-p, buy a house.

It is the one piece of propaganda, the importance of credit score, that somehow survives the BK process.

I appreciate your advice in this matter, but I have to disagree.

My wife and I lost our jobs. She lost hers a year before I did. So, even though we had spotless credit, we were unable to meet our obligations. They were not excessive. But we wanted to hold on to our house which we had about $20k in equity. So we lived on my $1680 a month of my umemployment, made a first mortgage payment of $1513, and a second of $539, on a $285,000 house. We cut all expenses - food, gas, cell phone, cable, etc. We exhausted our savings just trying to stay alive. This is not bragging or whining, just the facts. In many ways we are lucky compared to some situations I have read about here. I have been an electrical engineer for 28 years, and found myself out of work for 7 months. So we found ourselves needing to file, in the hopes of ridding ourselves of non secured credit debt. We are lucky enough to own our cars.

We really did learn our lesson the hard way. And for the record, we filed Ch 7 on 11/24/10 and were discharged on 3/2/11. My case is still open because the trustee is waiting for 90% of our tax return.

I found work and regained my income. My wife still is unemployed, but with a fresh start, we are able to do ok on my income. Like I said, I feel lucky. But we did a ride through on our mortgage. And we are very safe and stable people, and we want our home refinanced. We have an 8 year old ARM on the first mortgage, and we are lucky it adjusted down for the last few years - now at 3.25%. But we can't bet on that forever. So, to attain the goal of a refinance in two years (FHA guidelines), we need to re-establish ourselves.

And I'm not going to wait and do nothing for two years. I will diligently clean up our three reports and establish the minimum amount of credit to meet our goals. I do appreciate all of the tips I have gathered from members of this forum.

We don't want new cars. We don't want huge credit debts. All we use the CapOne card for is to buy gasoline for my commuting. Nothing else. We pay cash for everything else. I wouldn't call that excessive.

All I wanted to do with a larger bank was to deposit money in an account, get a secured loan, and have the loan pay itself off. A totally hands free move. Just to establish an installment loan, on top of a small revolving credit card with CapOne that reports to all CRAs. And my local credit union only reports to one credit bureau. I have since joined NFCU and will work with them, maybe on a credit card, but definitely on a secured installment loan. My attorney told me that a credit card and an installment loan would look very good to a mortgage broker or company. Because of the ride through, my first and second mortgage lenders - Citibank and Aurora Loan Services, refuse to report on time payments, so they do nothing for my credit rebuilding effort.

As far as employment goes, I carry a DoD security clearance where I have to report financial problems and bankruptcy. My clearance is reivestigated every five years. And to mitigate the possibilty of revoking my clearance, I have to show that I can responsibly handle my debts. Mitigating the BK just discharged will take the remaining four years of good credit performance, not just living on cash with no credit. During the investigations, I have credit checks run, and will have to have a Special Investigator sit down with me while I explain my situation.

I'm sorry for the long response, and I told you way too much about my situation, but I wanted to clear the air. This is not about the fervor of returning to debt. It is about rebuilding my credit score. I think we have learned our lesson - the biggest lesson was to return to school and get a Masters degree so that I hopefully remain employed for the rest of my working life. Poor spending habits may have contributed to our BK, but unemployment drove us to it. I worry about my reinvestigation when it comes up. We don't want the credit other than to refinance our house - to provide a little stability to a loan that can go up in interest rates. And in reality, the lenders could just foreclose, sell the house, and take the profits. I doubt they will, but it is a possibility.

Thanks for reading, Tom.

[Logan]

When were you discharged?

I have to say, these sorts of threads are actually depressing...the fervor with which people want to get back in debt and the mis placed importance placed on a credit score means that after going through BK, you haven't learned the FULL lesson bankruptcy. I know the excuses will start flying....blah blah blah, want a house, it effects employment (poppy-cock). Most wealthy, truly successful people are actually credit ghosts because they DON'T USE CREDIT. It is not actually unreasonable to think you can buy a car for CASH and g-a-s-p, buy a house.

It is the one piece of propaganda, the importance of credit score, that somehow survives the BK process.

It does seem that many here are aquiring cc's and carrying balances. If you want to reestablish credit get 1,2 or how many ever cc's you want but just put 1 charge a month on each card and then pay it off when your statement comes. Pay the dang things off and on time every month and your credit will rebuild. Make a plan, impliment your plan and don't over think it.
The media has us obsessed with our credit. It's really quite simple-pay your bills on time!!!

Logan

[Logan]

I appreciate your advice in this matter, but I have to disagree.

My wife and I lost our jobs. She lost hers a year before I did. So, even though we had spotless credit, we were unable to meet our obligations. They were not excessive. But we wanted to hold on to our house which we had about $20k in equity. So we lived on my $1680 a month of my umemployment, made a first mortgage payment of $1513, and a second of $539, on a $285,000 house. We cut all expenses - food, gas, cell phone, cable, etc. We exhausted our savings just trying to stay alive. This is not bragging or whining, just the facts. In many ways we are lucky compared to some situations I have read about here. I have been an electrical engineer for 28 years, and found myself out of work for 7 months. So we found ourselves needing to file, in the hopes of ridding ourselves of non secured credit debt. We are lucky enough to own our cars.

We really did learn our lesson the hard way. And for the record, we filed Ch 7 on 11/24/10 and were discharged on 3/2/11. My case is still open because the trustee is waiting for 90% of our tax return.

I found work and regained my income. My wife still is unemployed, but with a fresh start, we are able to do ok on my income. Like I said, I feel lucky. But we did a ride through on our mortgage. And we are very safe and stable people, and we want our home refinanced. We have an 8 year old ARM on the first mortgage, and we are lucky it adjusted down for the last few years - now at 3.25%. But we can't bet on that forever. So, to attain the goal of a refinance in two years (FHA guidelines), we need to re-establish ourselves.

And I'm not going to wait and do nothing for two years. I will diligently clean up our three reports and establish the minimum amount of credit to meet our goals. I do appreciate all of the tips I have gathered from members of this forum.

We don't want new cars. We don't want huge credit debts. All we use the CapOne card for is to buy gasoline for my commuting. Nothing else. We pay cash for everything else. I wouldn't call that excessive.

All I wanted to do with a larger bank was to deposit money in an account, get a secured loan, and have the loan pay itself off. A totally hands free move. Just to establish an installment loan, on top of a small revolving credit card with CapOne that reports to all CRAs. And my local credit union only reports to one credit bureau. I have since joined NFCU and will work with them, maybe on a credit card, but definitely on a secured installment loan. My attorney told me that a credit card and an installment loan would look very good to a mortgage broker or company. Because of the ride through, my first and second mortgage lenders - Citibank and Aurora Loan Services, refuse to report on time payments, so they do nothing for my credit rebuilding effort.

As far as employment goes, I carry a DoD security clearance where I have to report financial problems and bankruptcy. My clearance is reivestigated every five years. And to mitigate the possibilty of revoking my clearance, I have to show that I can responsibly handle my debts. Mitigating the BK just discharged will take the remaining four years of good credit performance, not just living on cash with no credit. During the investigations, I have credit checks run, and will have to have a Special Investigator sit down with me while I explain my situation.

I'm sorry for the long response, and I told you way too much about my situation, but I wanted to clear the air. This is not about the fervor of returning to debt. It is about rebuilding my credit score. I think we have learned our lesson - the biggest lesson was to return to school and get a Masters degree so that I hopefully remain employed for the rest of my working life. Poor spending habits may have contributed to our BK, but unemployment drove us to it. I worry about my reinvestigation when it comes up. We don't want the credit other than to refinance our house - to provide a little stability to a loan that can go up in interest rates. And in reality, the lenders could just foreclose, sell the house, and take the profits. I doubt they will, but it is a possibility.

Thanks for reading, Tom.

Why dont you speak with nfcu and ask them what you need for a mortgage. A lawyer is just that, a lawyer and does not work directly with borrowers everyday. So before you get an installment loan and waste money on interest get some advice from NFCU and a mortgage broker.

I used to be a loan officer. Your lawyer may have some good ideas but ask the people who will get you your new loan.

Logan

[Logan]

If my spelling sucks it's because I'm killing time on a life cycle typing on an iPhone.

[Amy26]

Hehe... ah, the age old debate. I don't want to get too much into it...yet again.... But, I will just say that I also disagree with HHM. What we say in rebute to you are not "excuses" ... they are opinions ... just like your "opinion". I actually find it amusing that people think the only way to live after a BK is in sole denial that credit even exists and to divorce yourself from it completely. Just because people are getting credit again and g-a-s-p USING IT doesn't mean they have turned to the dark side or swallowed some evil pill from the devil. It just means that is how they chose to spend their time and money.

Yes, DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN, some people carry balances after BK... yes, people get 2-3 credit cards and use them... and you know what, some people just might get into a bad situation again. But, that is their fault and their problem and none of our business. If people haven't learned their lessons and cannot act responsibly with their credit then its certainly none of our business to judge and they need to lie in their beds. All we can do is provide advice, personal experience and share our "opinions".

I will not be judgemental and say things like people who live a cash only lifestyle are silly, or spout excuses or live in denial etc etc... everyone has the right to their own opinions and I think people should lead their lives how they wish. There are many different opinions on this board but I really get a little unnerved when people start bashing the other side. I am not poking at one person or one post, I am speaking in general as a whole and my years of being on this board.

Credit is certainly a double edged sword and you definately need to be careful and use it wisely ... post BK or not. Just because we are post BK doesn't mean we are credit idiots or flunkies of the school of credit ... it can mean a variety of things. We just need to learn, adapt, educate ourselves and act responsibly how we see fit and then just try to help people when they ask and share our experiences.

Oh and for the record... as tada mentioned as well... I have a top secret clearance... and yes HHM, my credit does affect my employment it is not as you say "poppy cock". I had to go through a lot of scrutiny and explaining about my credit and my bankruptcy and show a new positive history. They are also going to scruitinize me again when I am reevaluated when my clearance is up for renewal. If they did not believe that I was capable of being financially responsible and handling my debts and my credit going forward (and previously) then I could have lost my clearance and my job.

[HHM]

my credit does affect my employment it is not as you say "poppy cock". I had to go through a lot of scrutiny and explaining about my credit and my bankruptcy and show a new positive history.

The exception that proves the rule...you didn't lose your job because of BK. I have worked with many that have had Top Secret clearance and not one have lost their job. And guess what, they didn't actually have to do anything afterward except make sure things were reporting properly. Don't misinterpret, I did not say BK is "not a factor", but as you have experienced personally, it is NEVER the deciding factor.

As always, people miss the point...the issue is mind-set toward credit, not credit itself. When someone comes out of BK and is anxious to "rebuild" it indicates (not proves, but indicates) an improper mindset toward credit and the "need" for credit. Here is the thing, if you NEED credit for anything, (even a house) that means you have been living beyond your means at some point. That is the fundamental issue.

[IBroke]

I'm rebuilding credit ASAP after discharge as a safety-precaution. The credit-limits on my CCs I obtained after discharge are either secured or so small that they don't threaten my financial health. Honestly, I doubt I have to file for BK again due to a $300 CL CC. My biggest loan I obtained post-BK is a $4,000 installment-loan - again, 100% secured and already prepaid 'til August.

I see it this way: Although I don't want to rely on credit any more, I certainly don't want to be penalized by the system for NOT rebuilding credit in case I need it again. Why should I give up the opportunity to get a higher credit-score?

[HHM]

I'm rebuilding credit ASAP after discharge as a safety-precaution. The credit-limits on my CCs I obtained after discharge are either secured or so small that they don't threaten my financial health. Honestly, I doubt I have to file for BK again due to a $300 CL CC. My biggest loan I obtained post-BK is a $4,000 installment-loan - again, 100% secured and already prepaid 'til August.

I see it this way: Although I don't want to rely on credit any more, I certainly don't want to be penalized by the system for NOT rebuilding credit in case I need it again. Why should I give up the opportunity to get a higher credit-score?

But you are fundamentally misunderstanding how credit works...After BK, MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE, time heals your credit. And again, I will point out "mindset" the idea that credit is for "emergencies" the fundamental trap of credit. I am not talking about having to file BK, it is about ever being in the position to have to rely on credit. Let me put it this way, if over the next 10 years, you had $500,000 in the bank...do you think you would really need credit.

I know my position may seem extreme, but the reality is, only the middle class relies on credit (the poor can't get credit, and the rich don't need credit...the problem is, the middle class try to live like they are rich).

[IBroke]

But you are fundamentally misunderstanding how credit works...After BK, MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE, time heals your credit. And again, I will point out "mindset" the idea that credit is for "emergencies" the fundamental trap of credit. I am not talking about having to file BK, it is about ever being in the position to have to rely on credit. Let me put it this way, if over the next 10 years, you had $500,000 in the bank...do you think you would really need credit.

I know my position may seem extreme, but the reality is, only the middle class relies on credit (the poor can't get credit, and the rich don't need credit...the problem is, the middle class try to live like they are rich).

I didn't use any credit over the last 5 years - initially, because I was forced to do so but I can tell you it doesn't take too long to get used to live on a cash-only basis. You are right about that one.

However, I can't predict the future. Maybe I'll need a new cellphone-contract or want to switch my car-insurance. Heck, these days you might even need good credit to open a simple checking-account.
What I'm doing right now has nothing to do with "using" credit. Instead of paying with my debit-card, I'm charging it on my CC and transfer the money back on to it. Since I'm carrying a $0 balance at the end of the month, I'm not even paying interest.

Your point would be valid if my savings would be eaten up by what I'm doing every month - but that's not true. The cost of rebuilding credit in my case is at about $10/month. That's nothing.
Rebuilding credit doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't set aside any savings. It's not "either/or", its "and". My secured loan does just that: It establishes credit AND builds a cash-reserve. So what's wrong with that?

I'm aware that time is the most important factor in rebuilding credit - I'm just using this time wisely.

You're right about the middle class - as long as it still exists.

[DebtHater]

Oh and for the record... as tada mentioned as well... I have a top secret clearance... and yes HHM, my credit does affect my employment it is not as you say "poppy cock". I had to go through a lot of scrutiny and explaining about my credit and my bankruptcy and show a new positive history. They are also going to scruitinize me again when I am reevaluated when my clearance is up for renewal. If they did not believe that I was capable of being financially responsible and handling my debts and my credit going forward (and previously) then I could have lost my clearance and my job.

If you "must" have credit (more accurately debt)to obtain and keep a security clearance how do those I know with NO credit (debt) have one?

I personally know three people who do not have credit scores because they don't have credit. One works for a navel contractor on a vessel that went to work right from college and is second in command of the ship. He doesn't have a house, never had a credit card. Lives well within his means because of a high income and low expense.

The other two work at West Point. One is a civilian and the other is military. They, as far as I know, had debt at one time but decided to pay it all off. Seven years later all entries fell off the credit bureaus. If they were to look up their credit score they wouldn't have one. They both had goals of being debt free by the time they retire and were able to do so early, now they live a cash only lifestyle (by choice). They decided that they'd rather hold on to any interest that would otherwise be paid to creditors.

[HHM]

I didn't use any credit over the last 5 years - initially, because I was forced to do so but I can tell you it doesn't take too long to get used to live on a cash-only basis. You are right about that one.

However, I can't predict the future. Maybe I'll need a new cellphone-contract or want to switch my car-insurance. Heck, these days you might even need good credit to open a simple checking-account.
What I'm doing right now has nothing to do with "using" credit. Instead of paying with my debit-card, I'm charging it on my CC and transfer the money back on to it. Since I'm carrying a $0 balance at the end of the month, I'm not even paying interest.

Your point would be valid if my savings would be eaten up by what I'm doing every month - but that's not true. The cost of rebuilding credit in my case is at about $10/month. That's nothing.
Rebuilding credit doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't set aside any savings. It's not "either/or", its "and". My secured loan does just that: It establishes credit AND builds a cash-reserve. So what's wrong with that?

I'm aware that time is the most important factor in rebuilding credit - I'm just using this time wisely.

You're right about the middle class - as long as it still exists.

But the thing is, "active rebuilding" is largely a myth. You give me 2 people out of BK 7. Both clean up their credit reports afterward, person 1 takes out a few CC's to "rebuild", the other does nothing else and just let's it sit. In 2-3 years time, the credit scores of those 2 persons will be nearly the same. Not identical, but both will be back to PRIME level lending rates.

However, again, I am not saying "don't" do it, but what I am saying is that you don't have too. Also, I am trying to re-orient mindset on whether you should actually care about credit.

[Amy26]

Perhaps its because I work for the CFO's office of the agency and I deal with people's social security numbers and their financial records? No I didn't lose my job, but I could have ... and I was told that I had to show a positive history going forward by my investigators from OPM... I'm not making that up.

Yes yes... we all miss your points... ours apparently go in one ear and out the other as well. And also, time does not solve everything. As I pointed out in another thread people who totally ignore their credit after BK and expect that time will heal everything wake up 2 years later when they wanna buy a house or something and say wow, why are my scores still in the 500's. I just saw a post exactly like this on another forum a few weeks ago. Time is a great thing to heal a lot of things but its not the sole means to an end. So, I do not agree with your analogy. It could happen... yes...but its not the norm.

Yes, you don't "have" to do anything. Everyone is free to do as they wish... Also, it is not your job to change people's mind sets. I dunno why everyone always misses when I say these things in my posts. You are not here to mindwash, brainwash, change minds, alter reality or "judge" anyone. If you don't care about credit then more power to you... but other people do. And that's perfectly fine... I can live with alternate viewpoints on the subject without trying to alter people's mindsets ... why can't you?

All you can do, as I have said 5,000 times, is present your opinions, give advice, and share personal experiences... people will believe how they want and will either take your advice or not.

[Amy26]

If you "must" have credit (more accurately debt)to obtain and keep a security clearance how do those I know with NO credit (debt) have one?

I am sorry, but I don't recall saying anything about the need to "must have debt" for my clearance. I said show a positive history. Actually, the presense of debt is usually a bad thing for security clearances because they believe you might be easily manipulated if offered money. And you are completely correct about people with no credit having no problems at all with their credit. I happen to work in the office of the CFO and have a bankruptcy on my report that happened when I was trying to obtain the clearance, so my finances were very closely scruitinized. Does everyone have the same experiences with clearances? No.

[tada]

I agree that I may be able to mitigate my bankruptcy to keep my clearance with no credit at all. But last year, I had a SPIN investigation concerning my past activities and financial standing. During the investigation, the inspector (or should I say the interviewer) stated that the Office of Personnel Management (OPM), the people who grant the clearance after the investigation, prefers to see a positive credit history showing that the person can handle credit responsibly. I did not get the impression that no credit history since a BK would be good. In a way you are just as vulnerable to accepting money for favors, since you have no purchasing power beyond your own pay.

It can be argued both ways. But in my opinion, and only my opinion, I would prefer to never have to go through special investigations again. I would rather hedge my bets and show a small amount of credit history to end any doubts that I can handle credit, and that my credit usage is low.

And something I am not too proud of is that I declared a BK in 1991, after another huge downturn in the defense industry. It was under the old laws. It was a time when you went in front of a judge while he went over your filing. It was not a widely done thing. It was humiliating. And the investigation by the government had me attached to a lie detector. It was extremely stressful, and I worried for several months if my permanent clearance would be granted. My job did depend on attaining and keeping a clearance. No clearance, no job.

It took me until 1996 to be able to finance a car. I drove a 1984 Escort that blew smoke until I could afford a cheap clean car. I was able to get a FHA loan in 1999. We bought an underpriced house for $177k that is now worth $272k. We did buy siding for the house which required borrowing, and lost a lot of money in the real estate bubble on a rental condo we bought. We had some crazy idea that real estate appreciates. And we made some foolish buys on cars.

Not to sound old, but we just can't afford to lose our jobs and certainly to file a BK again. After the first BK, we build our savings up, lived on cash, and bought only what we could afford. And even when we used credit, the load was not more than we could afford with our pay.

But things happen. Sometimes bad things. And losing your job is one of those things. I have no data on this, and this is just my opinion, but I think the rash of bankruptcies filed in the last few years have been to job loss, medical bills, and the burst in the housing bubble.

I think that many Americans were drawn into buying houses that they could not afford. By real estate agents, mortgage brokers, and appraisers. I found that a few years ago, appraisers would value houses on what the buyer wanted to spend, not on the true value of the house. Sub-prime loans - interest only, escalating ARMs, negative equity loans were offered to people just to get them into the house. And there is no doubt that people love to move into a new home. I always use this example - when people go to a car dealer to buy a new vehicle, see the vehicle, ride in it, and get approved to buy it, they almost never read the whole contract. When these same people go to buy a home, and see that they can get a very nice home, they never read all of the documentation. They are too excited about getting into the home.

I do put some of the blame of overspending on a home on the mortgage and real estate industry. I also put blame on the same group for pushing second mortgages. Years ago, people rarely carried seconds. But with mortgage companies willing to give out loans up to 125% of the value of the home, people have been tempted that their houses became credit cards.

Credit is a tempting thing. People want to live well, and they make mistakes. My grandparents who suffered through the depression and lost their home always warned me of credit. The also told me never to smoke, drink, or have relations with the opposite sex until I graduated college. I was 18 and felt I knew more than two old cronies. They were right about credit. I will argue the other subjects.

I'm sorry everyone is getting so riled up about this subject. I was just posting my opinion. Everyone has one. I'm going to follow my plan. I know that the credit is a risk, but I want to show that I can responsibly handle it.

[IamOld]

I wish you all the best of good luck - although I'm so burned off of credit that if/when I'm through this (Ch 13) I think I'll have a credit card with People's bank that CANNOT turn into a credit card but remains secured forever...I don't trust myself, and I don't EVER want to be in this situation again.

Thank you for sharing and again, all the very best to you!!!!!!

I agree that I may be able to mitigate my bankruptcy to keep my clearance with no credit at all. But last year, I had a SPIN investigation concerning my past activities and financial standing. During the investigation, the inspector (or should I say the interviewer) stated that the Office of Personnel Management (OPM), the people who grant the clearance after the investigation, prefers to see a positive credit history showing that the person can handle credit responsibly. I did not get the impression that no credit history since a BK would be good. In a way you are just as vulnerable to accepting money for favors, since you have no purchasing power beyond your own pay.

It can be argued both ways. But in my opinion, and only my opinion, I would prefer to never have to go through special investigations again. I would rather hedge my bets and show a small amount of credit history to end any doubts that I can handle credit, and that my credit usage is low.

And something I am not too proud of is that I declared a BK in 1991, after another huge downturn in the defense industry. It was under the old laws. It was a time when you went in front of a judge while he went over your filing. It was not a widely done thing. It was humiliating. And the investigation by the government had me attached to a lie detector. It was extremely stressful, and I worried for several months if my permanent clearance would be granted. My job did depend on attaining and keeping a clearance. No clearance, no job.

It took me until 1996 to be able to finance a car. I drove a 1984 Escort that blew smoke until I could afford a cheap clean car. I was able to get a FHA loan in 1999. We bought an underpriced house for $177k that is now worth $272k. We did buy siding for the house which required borrowing, and lost a lot of money in the real estate bubble on a rental condo we bought. We had some crazy idea that real estate appreciates. And we made some foolish buys on cars.

Not to sound old, but we just can't afford to lose our jobs and certainly to file a BK again. After the first BK, we build our savings up, lived on cash, and bought only what we could afford. And even when we used credit, the load was not more than we could afford with our pay.

But things happen. Sometimes bad things. And losing your job is one of those things. I have no data on this, and this is just my opinion, but I think the rash of bankruptcies filed in the last few years have been to job loss, medical bills, and the burst in the housing bubble.

I think that many Americans were drawn into buying houses that they could not afford. By real estate agents, mortgage brokers, and appraisers. I found that a few years ago, appraisers would value houses on what the buyer wanted to spend, not on the true value of the house. Sub-prime loans - interest only, escalating ARMs, negative equity loans were offered to people just to get them into the house. And there is no doubt that people love to move into a new home. I always use this example - when people go to a car dealer to buy a new vehicle, see the vehicle, ride in it, and get approved to buy it, they almost never read the whole contract. When these same people go to buy a home, and see that they can get a very nice home, they never read all of the documentation. They are too excited about getting into the home.

I do put some of the blame of overspending on a home on the mortgage and real estate industry. I also put blame on the same group for pushing second mortgages. Years ago, people rarely carried seconds. But with mortgage companies willing to give out loans up to 125% of the value of the home, people have been tempted that their houses became credit cards.

Credit is a tempting thing. People want to live well, and they make mistakes. My grandparents who suffered through the depression and lost their home always warned me of credit. The also told me never to smoke, drink, or have relations with the opposite sex until I graduated college. I was 18 and felt I knew more than two old cronies. They were right about credit. I will argue the other subjects.

I'm sorry everyone is getting so riled up about this subject. I was just posting my opinion. Everyone has one. I'm going to follow my plan. I know that the credit is a risk, but I want to show that I can responsibly handle it.