Judgements: What to do...

[dneil]

Hi everyone. I have been discharged and I know husband and I both have judgments against us from BEFORE we filed. I was just looking on Pacer and it says this:

Form B18 (Official Form 18)(07/08)
United States Bankruptcy Court
Western District of Michigan
One Division Ave., N.
Room 200
Grand Rapids, MI 49503
IN RE: Debtor(s) (name(s) used by the debtor(s) in the last 8
years, including married, maiden, trade, and address):
(NAMES, ADDRESS AND OTHER PERSONAL INFO I have REMOVED)



Chapter 7
Honorable Scott W. Dales
DISCHARGE OF DEBTOR
It appearing that the debtor is entitled to a discharge, IT IS ORDERED:
The debtor is granted a discharge under section 727 of title 11, United States Code, (the Bankruptcy
Code).
BY THE COURT
Dated: January 4, 2011
SEE THE BACK OF THIS ORDER FOR IMPORTANT INFORMATION.



Certificate Of Notice-

5966337 +19th Circuit Court, 448 Court Place, Beulah, MI 49617-9518
5966338 +85th District Court, 415 Third Street, Manistee, MI 49660-1624
5966339 +85th District Court, 448 Court Place, Beulah, MI 49617-9518
5966340 +86th District Court, 280 Washington Street, Suite 114C, Traverse City, MI 49684-2549

(there were a ton of creditors listed here but I removed them since it is SOOOOO LONG)

Now I have to ask..... does anyone know if, since the courts have been notified of our discharge, if we still have to file to vacate such judgments?

[AngelinaCatHub]

Yes. Do a search on this forum as there are many posts regarding this. Judgments need to be filed or included while in bk. Liens are far harder to get rid of so before you get one, get the Judgment handled. 'Hub

[dneil]

That is what I am saying. We included them in bankruptcy and the courts have been notified of the discharge. So why the need for me to go in and file a vacate? I am confused.... lol, not hard to do to me sometimes...

[SunshineGal]

Hi dniel,

The bk discharges the debt, however, the lien remains until its vacated. This could cause a problem down the road if you wanted to buy or sell real property and trust me, it is far more expensive and time consuming to have them vacated later...much better to get it done now.

SG

[dneil]

I do not believe there was any liens filed, just judgments for garnishments. Should I still ask to vacate these orders? Thanks

[SunshineGal]

I do not believe there was any liens filed, just judgments for garnishments. Should I still ask to vacate these orders? Thanks

Yes. There are two types of liens, the first applies to all "real property" and is by far the most common. I can't speak for all the states, but in mine, in order for a lien to attach to real property a *certified copy* of the judgment must be recorded in the same county as the real property. A certified copy simply means that the creditor has obtained a certified copy of the document and re-recorded it in the county records. The judgment then attached to all property owned, either now or in the future.

The second type of lien is filed through the state and attached to all personal property. This lien will usually be in addition to the real property lien.

So it is worth it to have the judgment vacated. Hope this helps.

SG

[BankruptinNJ]

Yes. There are two types of liens, the first applies to all "real property" and is by far the most common. I can't speak for all the states, but in mine, in order for a lien to attach to real property a *certified copy* of the judgment must be recorded in the same county as the real property. A certified copy simply means that the creditor has obtained a certified copy of the document and re-recorded it in the county records. The judgment then attached to all property owned, either now or in the future.

The second type of lien is filed through the state and attached to all personal property. This lien will usually be in addition to the real property lien.

So it is worth it to have the judgment vacated. Hope this helps.

SG

What if you don't have any property now? Is there a lien when you don't have any? I'll probably never own a home but I might buy a cheap used car one day.

I had a judgment against me -- or least I think I did. There was an order to garnish my wages. The weird thing is that this judgment appears nowhere on my Experian credit report, just the discharged bankruptcy. I haven't checked Trans Union or Equifax yet.

When I called the court where the original lawsuit was filed, I was told just to send them a letter, including my discharge. They had never heard of a "vacate" order. Do I need to bother to file one since I own nothing? Now that my bk is closed, will it be very expensive? I have no money, so I can't afford that. Should I just let it be?

[SunshineGal]

The problem with judgments is they can be refiled for up to 20 years! Try to explain to a junk bond dealer 10 years from now that the judgment was discharged...way better to vacate it and be done with it. Now, if the court said to send a letter with the discharge that may be all you need, not being a lawyer or familiar with New Jersey I really can't offer a good answer for you. Sorry.

SG

[AngelinaCatHub]

What if you don't have any property now? Is there a lien when you don't have any? I'll probably never own a home but I might buy a cheap used car one day.

I had a judgment against me -- or least I think I did. There was an order to garnish my wages. The weird thing is that this judgment appears nowhere on my Experian credit report, just the discharged bankruptcy. I haven't checked Trans Union or Equifax yet.

When I called the court where the original lawsuit was filed, I was told just to send them a letter, including my discharge. They had never heard of a "vacate" order. Do I need to bother to file one since I own nothing? Now that my bk is closed, will it be very expensive? I have no money, so I can't afford that. Should I just let it be?

My friend:

Credit companies are so over-rated. Go to your Courthouse or any County Courthouse that may have your records. LOOK, and if you cannot go online with them or understand how, the clerks will always aid you. See what you have against you and the trip will be "self-gratifying". 'Hub

[tobee43]

The problem with judgments is they can be refiled for up to 20 years! Try to explain to a junk bond dealer 10 years from now that the judgment was discharged...way better to vacate it and be done with it. Now, if the court said to send a letter with the discharge that may be all you need, not being a lawyer or familiar with New Jersey I really can't offer a good answer for you. Sorry.

SG

SG...yeah..up to 20 years and some renewable!!!!

to the OP: the motion to vacate the judgment, once granted is a "signed" court order and protects you from anyone going on that particular judgment...ever. so simply listing the judgment and the docket number does not dissolve the judgment...just the debt...so that's why it's so important once the bk is discharged that you back to your atty and have them file the motion to vacate...

in new jersey i know someone that had a few and it was pretty expensive to have the atty do them for her...because each judgment needs it's own motion to be filed...it cost her over $600 and i think that was 2 of them...so, it may well cost you more in legal fees but well worth the money, as these pending judgments can pop up to haunt you way down the road.

best of luck with it...i would call the atty that handled your bk and if you went pro se, then you can file the motion yourself as well.

[dneil]

The thing is... I asked my attorney about this and he said there was nothing I needed to do, other than making sure the 3 agencies are reporting things correctly. The judgments were listed in the bankruptcy and I do know each court (there were 3 different counties these were filed in) received a notice of bankruptcy discharge. So, what all of you are saying is that I need to go to the courts and ask to have each of these judgments removed?

If the debts were discharged, how can any of my 'real property' (such as my home?) have a lien placed on it?

[dneil]

Okay, so here is what I found as far as how things are in Michigan:

Vacate a Default Judgment in Michigan

Grounds for setting aside an order or judgment include:
Quote Quoting MCR 2.612 - Relief From Judgment or Order
(A) Clerical Mistakes.

(1) Clerical mistakes in judgments, orders, or other parts of the record and errors arising from oversight or omission may be corrected by the court at any time on its own initiative or on motion of a party and after notice, if the court orders it.

(2) If a claim of appeal is filed or an appellate court grants leave to appeal, the trial court may correct errors as provided in MCR 7.208(A) and (C).

(B) Defendant Not Personally Notified. A defendant over whom personal jurisdiction was necessary and acquired, but who did not in fact have knowledge of the pendency of the action, may enter an appearance within 1 year after final judgment, and if the defendant shows reason justifying relief from the judgment and innocent third persons will not be prejudiced, the court may relieve the defendant from the judgment, order, or proceedings for which personal jurisdiction was necessary, on payment of costs or on conditions the court deems just.

(C) Grounds for Relief From Judgment.

(1) On motion and on just terms, the court may relieve a party or the legal representative of a party from a final judgment, order, or proceeding on the following grounds:

(a) Mistake, inadvertence, surprise, or excusable neglect.

(b) Newly discovered evidence which by due diligence could not have been discovered in time to move for a new trial under MCR 2.611(B).

(c) Fraud (intrinsic or extrinsic), misrepresentation, or other misconduct of an adverse party.

(d) The judgment is void.

(e) The judgment has been satisfied, released, or discharged; a prior judgment on which it is based has been reversed or otherwise vacated; or it is no longer equitable that the judgment should have prospective application.

(f) Any other reason justifying relief from the operation of the judgment.

(2) The motion must be made within a reasonable time, and, for the grounds stated in subrules (C)(1)(a), (b), and (c), within one year after the judgment, order, or proceeding was entered or taken. A motion under this subrule does not affect the finality of a judgment or suspend its operation.

(3) This subrule does not limit the power of a court to entertain an independent action to relieve a party from a judgment, order, or proceeding; to grant relief to a defendant not actually personally notified as provided in subrule (B); or to set aside a judgment for fraud on the court.




So.......... to all of you who are smart with the courts. Does this mean I can just write a letter with a copy of the discharge and respectfully request the judgment(s) be set aside/vacated???

[MeLLE159]

I'm also in W Michigan and when I'm discharged I will need to do the same thing. I believe its as simple as asking the court for the motion to vacate document attach it to discharg and be done. Call the court and the clerk will tell you exactly. Let me know!

[dneil]

I absolutely will. I am calling them in about 30 minutes so I will know the procedure very soon.

[AngelinaCatHub]

I absolutely will. I am calling them in about 30 minutes so I will know the procedure very soon.

Yes. Let us know your outcome. Your Statute quote gives a viable reason for the Judge just to sign it away. 'Hub